this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2024
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Let me consume nicotine in the least harmful method available. You don’t get to dictate what I do with my body. That includes all drugs.
Nicotine eCigarettes are still available by prescription
I disagree with the chosen changes , but they come as a result of nicotine being found in the vast majority of "nicotine-free" vapes and juices. So we're not really coming from a position of "choose what goes into your body".
You mean nicotine gum? Or nicotine patches right? Because those are still legal.
Nicotine gum is not more healthy. You can develop serious issues with your gums and stomach. Nicotine is not meant to be ingested, and gum makes that particularly easy.
Nicotine isn't "meant" for anything. It's a side product from a plant that works as a form of protection.
There is no healthy was to use it, but that's true for almost everything in the world. There are responsible ways to use it, and most drugs should be legal to allow for this. If they're illegal they're still going to be purchased and used, but they're not going to go through regulations that could prevent harm from factors that can be controlled for.
I am not sure what your point is. All I am saying is different substances do better with different ROA. Rock Candy isn't healthy, however it's much less healthy if you aggressively insert it into your rectum.
There is a reason there are no nicotine beverages and the gum specifically says not to swallow while using it.
I wasn't countering what you were saying, but adding to it. Some people think there are no bad health effects from vaping nicotine. Nicotine, at minimum, is bad for you heart though. I'm fine with people making the informed choice to use it, but no one should be under the allusion that there's a certain way that it's meant to be used and it's healthy.
Sure, but can we then tax the product for the actual health risk?
And least damaging? How about gum, or tabs. No popcorn lung involved.
Popcorn lung does not come from vaping any sort of regular vape juice that is on the market anymore. Popcorn lung came from inhaling vape juices that had Diacetyl, or Vitamin E acetate. These were used for flavoring in the early days of vapes before it was found out that they cause popcorn lung. It was also more common in THC vapes than nicotine ones.
I haven't heard of one case of it happening since then, as all of the vape juice manufacturers stopped adding these ingredients years ago. I'm not saying vaping isn't bad for you, it definitely is, but popcorn lung is not something anyone needs to be concerned about anymore. It is definitely not as bad for your health as smoking cigarettes, at least.
You are correct that gum or nicotine pouches are the least damaging way to consume nicotine.
The nasty cases were Vitamin E acetate, not diacetyl. Diacetyl is butter aroma, same stuff as in actual butter, probably not dangerous at all at sane concentrations, certainly at the amount sensible for vape juice. Cigarette smoke contains more diacetyl than the highest ever measured concentrations in vapes and somehow noone is arguing that cigarettes are causing popcorn lung -- they do nasty shit, but not that particular kind of particularly nasty. The original popcorn lung cases were workers in a factory producing popcorn and handling the stuff pretty much pure, though TBH I'm not entirely convinced it was actually diacetyl and not something else.
I definitely agree. Most of the worst cases of vape related injury that I have ever read about involved terribly made THC cartridges containing Vitamin E acetate. I just know there were claims of popcorn lung and diacetyl in vape juices in the early days of vaping.
FWIW, I worked at a smoke shop for a few years during this time and we sold a lot of vape stuff from China. I never heard of a single customer complaint about anything health related to nicotine vapes, and these were the days where people were using those giant mods and blowing obnoxious clouds of vapor.
Abortion is bad for the fetus’s health. Perhaps we should tax it 1000%. While we are at it let’s tax Soda and Sugar. Fuck it lets tax cosmetic surgery, I mean it is such a waste and so risky.
If we are going to go down this road of controlling other people’s bodies let’s go all the way then.
Sugar is already being taxed, and this will grow. High fructose should be extra taxed yes. Abortion seems out of place in your rabid "muh freedumbs" response.
There is a responsibility for a government to protect the health of citizens. I can see this (and drugs) being properly regulated. And then people can buy and use as they see fit. But just free sales, no.
I don’t agree with those taxes. People are free to do with their body what they want, provided it’s not harmful to others. This is not the responsibility of the government.
Providing education so people can make informed decisions about the risks of the behaviors they engage in - now that’s a government (and parental) responsibility.
Yeah, same as with vaccination. Your decisions influence a lot of others.
Even if the government properly informs people, not everyone is able to make an informed decision.
Private companies abusing the system and hurting many people along the way is not something that should be celebrated as freedom. And this is a perfect example of that. Health, the environment everything can be sacrificed in the name of profit.
Vaccines are not a personal freedom just like shitting in the creek behind your house isn't a personal freedom. Those decisions create public health nightmares. I don't think people should be allowed to smoke or vape in public where it could affect others, but what people do in their own time is their own business.
As long as I don't have to subsidise their health care
Can I opt out of covering people who engage in extreme sports, or other reckless behavior?
I believe everyone is entitled to healthcare, even people who make bad decisions. Literally everyone.
I'm with that. We should have a dickhead tax; hurt yourself doing something while drunk then you pay, hurt yourself skydiving then you pay, hurt yourself crazy driving then you pay.
Interjecting because this is kind of an easier comment with which to make it, but it does apply to the conversation generally: I think my willingness for this to be the case would probably be dependent on whether or not it means we have to pay more or less, both at a personal level, and a societal level. i.e. does this discourage reckless behavior enough for it to offset the potential economic drain of, say, determining liability?
The same can be asked of vaping, but with different caveats. Does it work out that it costs less over time for us to regulate vapes, regulate flavors, etc. , compared to if we chose not to regulate them, or chose to regulate them more liberally? It might be somewhat difficult to totally regulate against consumer purchase and mixing of chemical flavoring agents, and such regulation might also increase adverse health outcomes, as it would've been, generally, easier to enforce safety standards on the supply side. Increased taxes might lead to increased costs foisted onto the consumer which, again, might lead to a larger unregulated market developing, which can cause other problems.
I'm not saying regulation shouldn't be done, I think it's broadly a good thing, but I think it's also usually the case with these sorts of things that everyone tends to form opinions, and legislate, based on mixtures of hip shooting public sentiment and whatever their "common sense" tells them, rather than creating regulations around whatever would result in the most net benefit, or, the least net negative. Most of all, people tend to shoot first with regulation, and then never even ask questions later about what the effects were, but I guess that's all getting off a little bit into the weeds on the flaws of overly brittle political systems.
Well I’m glad you are there to dictate what someone can and can’t do with their body. We only want people to engage in activities if they are state sanctioned.
As an alternative, government regulates all sorts of things. Alcohol, gambling, cigarettes, firearms.
The government is the counterweight to corporations abusing people that might not be able to resist and the VERY negative societal impacts this has.
The fact you think this is unnecessary makes you very fortunate that you never had to deal with the negative externalities of these companies.