You can't gatekeep being nonbinary. Not unless you're prepared to define it explicitly, which will exclude many people - and not everyone will agree with your definition either.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I said just because. Not that effeminate men aren’t capable of being nonbinary, merely that it is not sufficient (or necessary for that matter). You have to like actually not identify as entirely a man.

But it’s not my place to fight I’m very much in the binary side of transness.

[–] tan00k@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Whose authority says it's not sufficient? If they say they are nonbinary, they are nonbinary.

[–] aBundleOfFerrets@sh.itjust.works 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

OP means “don’t assume someone is non-binary because they are an effeminate man” and not “you aren’t non-binary just because you are an effeminate man”

[–] tan00k@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

I suppose that's possible, but the thing you say OP is not saying is literally a quote. So at best it's worded poorly.

[–] The_Lopen@sh.itjust.works 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Except they literally said that

[–] aBundleOfFerrets@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Their intent with the message was clearly less-than-literal. They tried to clear things up in replies but failed. I think it is quite clear that they meant no one any harm, and simply failed to convey their idea properly.

[–] The_Lopen@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 months ago

The comment itself should be edited to reflect the original intent, then. People can't just say stupid and hyperbolic things and not be held socially accountable.

[–] Sadbutdru@sopuli.xyz 1 points 9 months ago

This is a miscommunication, you two are not really in disagreement as far as I can see. If someone {presents as an effeminate man} AND {they say they're non-binary} => {they are non-binary}. However if someone {presents as an effeminate man} AND does NOT {say they're non-binary}...... Then it's not sufficient.

[–] anarchy79@lemmy.world -2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Nothing is anything, did people forget that these are all completely nonsense words with no connection to reality? No matter how scientific and very legal very cool semantic concepts you come up with it won't change reality one fucking bit. Non binary.. Nobody gives a FUCK, it has no correlation with ANYTHING in the Universe, it's just another shit pseudophilosophical concept being shoved down everyone's throat like it's some kind of objective reality.

It's metaphysics, and "you people" (yes, YOU PEOPLE) suck at it.

The shit you find in your belly hole while navel gazing is not worth shit.

[–] LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Are you transphobic as well? I'm genuinely curious. Or does transgender count as "real" in your view because it does have a far more strict definition?

[–] MetaCubed@lemmy.world 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I thought they were gender abolitionist, but I... I'm not too sure anymore.

[–] LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I am too tbh, I think the weird thing is enbies to me are inherently a sort of political commentary through identity on gender and our relationship to it, unless I'm just wrong.

I think the whole issue is somewhat separate from trans people who mostly are just people with a mental neurodivergence/disorder called gender dysphoria that causes them anguish and is caused by their body's sex and their brain's innate sense of sex don't agree and therefore they seek medical treatments like HRT and surgeries and documentation changes to help them perceive themselves and be perceived by others as members of the target sex as much as is humanly possible.

Their political angle is to fight for access to said healthcare to be more common, available through insurance, be taken more seriously with faster wait times and be available to younger people since the effectiveness of a lot of the treatments like hormones depends on the age you start.

Conflating the two imo is kinda like commentary on attention spans relating to social media and the actual neurological disorder ADHD.

[–] MetaCubed@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

I think it's a little "exotic" to call my existence an inherent political commentary. It's certainly something that can be used to inform political debate, but I believe saying that it's inherent misses the point that our existence is only political because it's politicized

And for what it's worth, gender dysphoria is also something experienced by nonbinary folks, but it isn't a requirement of being trans or non-binary either. Some people just don't experience it and requiring it as a clinical diagnosis is part of the medicalization of our and trans people's existence as well.

I don't really know how to finish this lol, I agree with the rest of your comment. I just wanted to correct what I feel are common misconceptions.

[–] chetradley@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

Telling someone whose gender doesn't conform to the male/female binary view of gender that the term non-binary is a "shit pseudophilosophical concept" that "has no connection to reality" fucking sucks. Either you don't recognize gender outside of the binary, or you just think these people don't deserve a way to express and talk about their gender. Either way it's a garbage take.