this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2023
59 points (74.4% liked)

GenZedong

4186 readers
25 users here now

This is a Dengist community in favor of Bashar al-Assad with no information that can lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton, our fellow liberal and queen. This community is not ironic. We are Marxists-Leninists.

This community is for posts about Marxism and geopolitics (including shitposts to some extent). Serious posts can be posted here or in /c/GenZhou. Reactionary or ultra-leftist cringe posts belong in /c/shitreactionariessay or /c/shitultrassay respectively.

We have a Matrix homeserver and a Matrix space. See this thread for more information. If you believe the server may be down, check the status on status.elara.ws.

Rules:

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] darkcalling@lemmygrad.ml 41 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Stop spewing liberal propaganda. You'd think people here would know better by now. There is no evidence Russia deliberately targeted civilians.

We know from the past that Ukrainians deliberately park military assets near civilian infrastructure like schools, malls, etc so even if the maternity center and kindergarten aren't lies it's very likely they were hit incidentally after the Ukro-nazis used them as shields with the deliberate intent of making sure Russians killed civilians so they could sob about it.

The whole war is a bad thing. Fascists seizing power in 2014 is a bad thing, the break-up of the Soviet Union was a bad thing, etc.

But I'd like to point out that with Ukraine's "fall of Berlin" level of mass conscription, Russian soldiers firing on Ukrainian soldiers is killing people who were only recently civilians and didn't choose to be on the front lines but were kidnapped and put there with Neo-Nazi blocking units (and US supplied intelligence and overwatch) preventing them from fleeing their posts. And these are people who have for months, a year been prevented from fleeing the conflict zone by their own government desperate to keep canon fodder around by shutting the borders, thus placing them in danger. Obviously you probably wouldn't say that's as wrong as civilians being incidentally killed in missile strikes but both were chosen by the Ukrainians not the Russians who desperately, with all their might and vigor tried to find peace out of this even if it meant not getting all their goals repeatedly but were rejected in favor of being bled in an attempt to destroy and humiliate Russia and its people.

The blood of any dead Ukrainian civilians (including those pressed into uniform for use as canon fodder) is not the fault of Russia but of the US and the fascist puppet leadership in Kiev and I will continually point this out and scream about this mischaracterization which is in fact regurgitating western propaganda. The blood is entirely on their not Russian hands. In a strategy where the flailing puppet regime is demanded by it's American masters to fight to the last Ukrainian it's an unusual situation.

I feel badly for the Russian soldiers who've died and I feel badly for the Ukrainian conscripts (to a lesser degree given they watched fascism rise and did nothing or abetted it), but this happens in war against these types. A war Russia did not choose. A war they gave multiple off-ramps to. A defensive war against imperialist aggression and encroachment by swastika and SS symbol sporting fascists as the tip of the NATO spear aimed at Russia's belly.

[โ€“] Flamingoaks@lemmygrad.ml -5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Thats a lot of words to address things i didnt fucking say. maybe i should not have said "targets" maybe i should have said "kills" instead, but lets be clear is not like Russia wouldnt if the felt they needed to, they have targeted civilian infrastructure like the powergrid before.

[โ€“] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 18 points 10 months ago

they have targeted civilian infrastructure like the powergrid before

First, there's a huge difference between targeting civilian infrastructure vs. actual civilians. Blowing up a bridge across a river in a city is not the same as indiscriminately bombing the city.

Second, there is likely no significant infrastructure that is used purely for civilian purposes. The fact that Russia hasn't destroyed any infrastructure it can reach (which is virtually everywhere in Ukraine) is evidence that they are showing at least some restraint. Contrast this with Gaza (where the Israel had to be pressured to even allow water in) or the indiscriminate bombing campaigns that everyone conducted in WWII, and the U.S. in particular conducted in Korea and Vietnam.

[โ€“] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

A powergrid is the quintessential example of dual purpose infrastructure. Without a functioning power grid a modern military's logistics are crippled. That unfortunately makes power grids absolutely a legitimate target for destruction in a war. The fact that Russia so far has refrained from wiping out Ukraine's power grid because they are concerned about the serious consequences it would have on the civilian population is a testament to their restraint and patience.

They could easily target and disable most of Ukraine's power plants, they could leave most of Ukraine without power, without heating and without most forms of telecommunications, but so far all they did was they took out some high value electrical substations that were especially important for the rail sector. And may i remind you that Ukraine, like Russia, uses trains to transport most of its troops and equipment over longer distances.