this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2023
59 points (74.4% liked)
GenZedong
4186 readers
25 users here now
This is a Dengist community in favor of Bashar al-Assad with no information that can lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton, our fellow liberal and queen. This community is not ironic. We are Marxists-Leninists.
This community is for posts about Marxism and geopolitics (including shitposts to some extent). Serious posts can be posted here or in /c/GenZhou. Reactionary or ultra-leftist cringe posts belong in /c/shitreactionariessay or /c/shitultrassay respectively.
We have a Matrix homeserver and a Matrix space. See this thread for more information. If you believe the server may be down, check the status on status.elara.ws.
Rules:
- No bigotry, anti-communism, pro-imperialism or ultra-leftism (anti-AES)
- We support indigenous liberation as the primary contradiction in settler colonies like the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Israel
- If you post an archived link (excluding archive.org), include the URL of the original article as well
- Unless it's an obvious shitpost, include relevant sources
- For articles behind paywalls, try to include the text in the post
- Mark all posts containing NSFW images as NSFW (including things like Nazi imagery)
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Stop spewing liberal propaganda. You'd think people here would know better by now. There is no evidence Russia deliberately targeted civilians.
We know from the past that Ukrainians deliberately park military assets near civilian infrastructure like schools, malls, etc so even if the maternity center and kindergarten aren't lies it's very likely they were hit incidentally after the Ukro-nazis used them as shields with the deliberate intent of making sure Russians killed civilians so they could sob about it.
The whole war is a bad thing. Fascists seizing power in 2014 is a bad thing, the break-up of the Soviet Union was a bad thing, etc.
But I'd like to point out that with Ukraine's "fall of Berlin" level of mass conscription, Russian soldiers firing on Ukrainian soldiers is killing people who were only recently civilians and didn't choose to be on the front lines but were kidnapped and put there with Neo-Nazi blocking units (and US supplied intelligence and overwatch) preventing them from fleeing their posts. And these are people who have for months, a year been prevented from fleeing the conflict zone by their own government desperate to keep canon fodder around by shutting the borders, thus placing them in danger. Obviously you probably wouldn't say that's as wrong as civilians being incidentally killed in missile strikes but both were chosen by the Ukrainians not the Russians who desperately, with all their might and vigor tried to find peace out of this even if it meant not getting all their goals repeatedly but were rejected in favor of being bled in an attempt to destroy and humiliate Russia and its people.
The blood of any dead Ukrainian civilians (including those pressed into uniform for use as canon fodder) is not the fault of Russia but of the US and the fascist puppet leadership in Kiev and I will continually point this out and scream about this mischaracterization which is in fact regurgitating western propaganda. The blood is entirely on their not Russian hands. In a strategy where the flailing puppet regime is demanded by it's American masters to fight to the last Ukrainian it's an unusual situation.
I feel badly for the Russian soldiers who've died and I feel badly for the Ukrainian conscripts (to a lesser degree given they watched fascism rise and did nothing or abetted it), but this happens in war against these types. A war Russia did not choose. A war they gave multiple off-ramps to. A defensive war against imperialist aggression and encroachment by swastika and SS symbol sporting fascists as the tip of the NATO spear aimed at Russia's belly.
Thats a lot of words to address things i didnt fucking say. maybe i should not have said "targets" maybe i should have said "kills" instead, but lets be clear is not like Russia wouldnt if the felt they needed to, they have targeted civilian infrastructure like the powergrid before.
A powergrid is the quintessential example of dual purpose infrastructure. Without a functioning power grid a modern military's logistics are crippled. That unfortunately makes power grids absolutely a legitimate target for destruction in a war. The fact that Russia so far has refrained from wiping out Ukraine's power grid because they are concerned about the serious consequences it would have on the civilian population is a testament to their restraint and patience.
They could easily target and disable most of Ukraine's power plants, they could leave most of Ukraine without power, without heating and without most forms of telecommunications, but so far all they did was they took out some high value electrical substations that were especially important for the rail sector. And may i remind you that Ukraine, like Russia, uses trains to transport most of its troops and equipment over longer distances.
First, there's a huge difference between targeting civilian infrastructure vs. actual civilians. Blowing up a bridge across a river in a city is not the same as indiscriminately bombing the city.
Second, there is likely no significant infrastructure that is used purely for civilian purposes. The fact that Russia hasn't destroyed any infrastructure it can reach (which is virtually everywhere in Ukraine) is evidence that they are showing at least some restraint. Contrast this with Gaza (where the Israel had to be pressured to even allow water in) or the indiscriminate bombing campaigns that everyone conducted in WWII, and the U.S. in particular conducted in Korea and Vietnam.
Sounds familiar?
this is just lazy, it's on the same level as people replacing "bourgeoisie" in communist slogans with "black people" or whatever to imply that communists and nazis sound-alike or have the same beliefs
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/
the ukrainian military does have a history of using civilian infrastructure for military purposes, there's even a recent video of them using a fucking ambulance for their meat catcher conscription scheme
hamas doesn't have a history of doing that, it's zionist propaganda
The Zionist's confession to shoot explosives across all of Gaza Strip actually make it obvious that they deliberately target civilians along with their confession that killing civilians are unavoidable in war. The photo evidences and testomonies by pro-Kyiv are full of ambiguity, self-contradiction, plot holes, and fantasy logic.
Almost like Hamas has legitimate grievances against invading fascist settlers as do the Russians. Almost like Hamas' situation being put in a small, very dense urban area with no choice but to fight out of it is different from the choices the Ukrainians make in where to locate their air defenses and other strategically important things. Almost like every accusation a confession from the west and their pawns.
Shameful for a user on this site to take this kind of ignorant stance. Do better.
The city of Donetsk has a relative area size to the Gaza Strip, and has less than half the population. Israel has dropped 25,000 tonnes of explosives on the Gaza Strip, equivalent to two nuclear bombs. Shut the fuck up.