this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023
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GenZedong
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I listened to the Putin speech where he referenced 1917. I know he's not a fan of the Bolsheviks, but it seems he took issue with the violence of the civil war and the incompetence of the Empire than the actions of the Bolsheviks, at least that's my reading of it.
He’s worried that he’s going to get couped in a similar style to the Tsar, because all things considered, the Bolsheviks were an extremely weak fighting force compared to the Imperial army, but after their ranks were bolstered by defectors from WW1, and with the popular will of the people, they were able to sweep the Whites aside with relative ease.
I don't think there's such a strong support of Wagner in this case for that to happen, though, from what I'm seeing in TG channels everyone are treating them as traitors and I doubt the feeling in the ranks is much different, maybe there are some loose ends where money is involved but otherwise it would be very unpatriotic to support Wagner.
Definitely, I’m just giving Putin’s probable rationale. He’s probably had this in his mind for a long time, and not just about Wagner.
In Petersburg at first yeah. But the civil war was incredibly hard. If whites actually managed to coordinate even with themselves, not to mention with intervents, they would probably won. Hell, the worst moment in war was when Yudenich managed to somewhat coordinate with Kolchak, and even then Kolchak fucked it up by being stuck up imperialist pig.
I agree, I was referring to the “first blitz” in major cities, and then the original offensives in 17-19. The rest of the civil war wad a bloody terrible affair.
So I don't know quite what to think of this, and I haven't listened to the speech yet, but according to Alexander Mercouris -- who isn't a communist by any stretch of the imagination -- Putin was referring, not to the events in October 1917, but in February of that same year. That is, he sees power plays within the Russian government as a key factor in the Tsar being "manipulated"into resigning, which of course led to the Provisional government and the Kerensky regime. This view of history may be a bit suspect, but it also isn't explicitly anti-Bolshevik (you could, under this interpretation, view the Bolsheviks as a strong force which seized control in the middle of chaos and prevented Russia from becoming a western fief).
Several different events happened in 1917. He could also be referring to the failed Kornilov coup. He could be referring to the forced abdication of the Tsar and the establishment of Kerensky's provisional government. But given that we know that he is an anti-communist and despises Lenin the likeliest option is that he means the October revolution and the subsequent signing of Brest-Litovsk which is viewed by Russian nationalists as a sort of stab in the back as they believe they were winning and that was a needless capitulation and humiliating loss of territory.