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IDF sniper kills two women inside Gaza church, Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem says
(edition.cnn.com)
this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2023
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Correction: allegedly it hit 2/3 civilians. Reports suggest that IDF soldiers have been told to shoot without asking who they are shooting is going around. Other reports suggest they are trying to hide information and rejecting to invistigate these deaths because it doesn't matter and "there are many of them".
If we learn anything in the last few weeks is that the number is generously inflated.
We should have source links for such claims. Misinformation makes us weaker at deciding what’s right and wrong; every claim like this reasonably needs verification.
Reservist accidentally shoots Israeli civilian: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-exhumed-to-perform-autopsy-on-body-of-hero-civilian-shot-dead-by-reservist/. I believe in this case the police said, "nothing in his body, no bullets, bury him" but later the reservist came forward, and now the body is being exhhumed
IDF apache pilots couldn't distinguish between civilians and combatants: https://www.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-02cfdbceafc4b81027.htm?utm_source=AndroidNews12&utm_medium=Share (this is in Hebrew)
This report from TheGrayZone that talks about how many of those dead and torched bodies in melted cars could have been victims of the IDF rather than Hamas since Hamas and the other factions don't have weapons that could possibly cause this kind of damage: https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
Another testimony, this time from a victim of the attack, where she mentions Israeli forces shot their own people: https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861. This lead to the tragic death of one 12-year-old Israeli girl (https://thegrayzone.com/2023/11/25/israels-october-7-propaganda-tank-eyewitnesses/). If you speak Hebrew, this is the testimony: https://omny.fm/shows/kan-news/4-26
Another IDF soldier said that he was asked to shell into a house (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/02/israeli-tank-commander-hailed-as-hero-after-hamas-attack-is-killed-in-gaza)
More reports of this from Mondoweiss with quotes from Haaretz and from other survivors: https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/.
Another testimony in this fact-checking piece debunking a video, where one soldier also said she was simply told to shoot, whether there are hostages inside or not: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/12/01/no-video-does-not-prove-idf-tanks-shot-at-israeli-citizens-fact-check/71759408007/
I think there are more reports from IDF soldiers told to fire on their own base to kill Hamas fighters, even with army personnel inside. I can't find this link but I'll try to update it later.
From looking at these many testimonies, it seems that the Hannibal directive was in full action... many seem to have died from helicopter fire or tanks running into their small homes, killing them as well as their captors. IDF and reservists were not given time or training or the ability to distinguish civilians from non-civilians. It also seems like some of the pictures presented by Israel's UN envoy may have been Hamas fighters torched to death in their vehicles, potentially with hostages on board. A large number of these soldiers are really young, some teens. It's likely that the panic + the general IDF philosophy to shoot anything that moves may have caused this tragedy.
Thank you for the references. This is needed to be read by all.
Thanks! It's good to keep in mind that this in no way absolves Hamas. We have footage of combatant's body cams, and we know what they did.
But we also need to listen to the voices that emerged at the beginning and are slowly emerging these last weeks. There are many things wrong with the IDF, and it must admit its mistakes to process.
Why did Israel lie so much, though? 40 beheaded babies when the youngest to die was only 10? Being unable to say how many dead bodies are those of Hamas fighters? Why are released hostages told not to speak to the press and are being monitored with each press interaction? Maybe they just lie for fun.