this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023
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[–] bostonbananarama@lemmy.world 70 points 11 months ago (15 children)

I just wish Dems would stop trying to ban any guns, and not because I'm against gun control, but because it's a losing issue. It's never passing through this Congress, and if it ever did, the Supreme Court would strike it down. Given that that's fairly undeniable, why lose the people who organize and vote on this issue alone?

[–] farcaster@lemmy.world 30 points 11 months ago (10 children)

This has been said about many issues in the past. Effecting change isn't easy but giving up doesn't help. Americans support gun control. Only our crappy political system stands in the way.

[–] Zoboomafoo@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago

On both sides, Republicans block any gun control, and Democrats only propose useless legislation

[–] AnneBonny@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Americans support gun control. Only our crappy political system stands in the way.

What do you think the other person meant when they said, "It’s never passing through this Congress, and if it ever did, the Supreme Court would strike it down."?

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[–] Kleinbonum@feddit.de 24 points 11 months ago (8 children)

it's a losing issue. It's never passing through this Congress, and if it ever did, the Supreme Court would strike it down.

You know, that's exactly what people said about Roe v. Wade and about banning abortion.

Turns out that you can keep losing on an issue for 50 years, yet winning only once will drastically change the trajectory of the entire issue.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's the opposite situation. Pro-life voters and pro-gin voters are the 2 largest single-issue voting groups in the country.

Look at it this way. If you swapped Trump and Biden's positions on abortion but changed nothing else, how many pro-choice Democrats would have voted for Trump?

Basically zero, right. Meanwhile, millions of pro-life Republicans would have flipped because abortion is the singular issue upon which they base their vote.

Guns are in the same boat. Hundreds of thousands of voters vote strictly based on their love of guns. There's no political advantage in the general election for being anti-gun, and the Dems are sacrificing a whole lot of seats to fight this losing battle.

[–] Hawke@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

pro-gin voters

I thought we resolved that with the end of Prohibition?

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[–] Vytle@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yeah nevermind that the constitution says "shall not be infringed"' If abortion rights were in the constitution there would be no way of banning it, just as it is with firearms.

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (16 children)

Actually it says that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.* It says nothing about procuring them. Banning gun sales is totally on the table. Plus, "arms" is kinda a funny word. It doesn't mean just guns. Yet most people would agree that I shouldn't be allowed to build bombs in my basement. Isn't that a violation of the second amendment?

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[–] Bonskreeskreeskree@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Imagine just for a second, that they drop the issue and gain control of all 3 branches and then actually do something about it rather than constantly struggling to win because of single policy voters.

[–] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

The only thing tougher to imagine than dems winning supermajorities and all three branches is the dems doing something with it. Hard to imagine the people who fund splinter dems like Manchin wont just do the same thing to a dozen dems instead of two.

[–] AnneBonny@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 11 months ago

Roe had good results, but it wasn't a good decision.

Casual observers of the Supreme Court who came to the Law School to hear Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg speak about Roe v. Wade likely expected a simple message from the longtime defender of reproductive and women’s rights: Roe was a good decision.

Those more acquainted with Ginsburg and her thoughtful, nuanced approach to difficult legal questions were not surprised, however, to hear her say just the opposite, that Roe was a faulty decision. For Ginsburg, the landmark 1973 Supreme Court decision that affirmed a woman’s right to an abortion was too far-reaching and too sweeping, and it gave anti-abortion rights activists a very tangible target to rally against in the four decades since.

Ginsburg and Professor Geoffrey Stone, a longtime scholar of reproductive rights and constitutional law, spoke for 90 minutes before a capacity crowd in the Law School auditorium on May 11 on “Roe v. Wade at 40.”

“My criticism of Roe is that it seemed to have stopped the momentum on the side of change,” Ginsburg said. She would’ve preferred that abortion rights be secured more gradually, in a process that included state legislatures and the courts, she added. Ginsburg also was troubled that the focus on Roe was on a right to privacy, rather than women’s rights.

“Roe isn’t really about the woman’s choice, is it?” Ginsburg said. “It’s about the doctor’s freedom to practice…it wasn’t woman-centered, it was physician-centered.”

https://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/justice-ruth-bader-ginsburg-offers-critique-roe-v-wade-during-law-school-visit

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[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Seriously. Pivot to mental health funding or something. At least that has a chance of passing and even if it doesn't cut down on shootings it will still help people.

[–] bostonbananarama@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

I'd be fine with changes to all manner of healthcare and insurance coverage, including single payer.

[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 10 points 11 months ago (9 children)

Plus if they focused on mental health and preventive measures they could maybe bring over some fire arms enthusiasts, who otherwise vote republican or atleast get them to not vote.

Mind you the effectiveness may be scattershot at times since its alot easier to get the guy going postal than it is to get the an ideologically motivated shitbag.

[–] MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

Republicans block efforts for increased healthcare of any kind let alone mental health. They also block preventative measures like red flag laws.

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[–] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 9 points 11 months ago (7 children)

What do you propose? Just accept the massacres?

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago

Advocate for shit that would actually change things.

[–] DanglingFury@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

Enforce our ban on domestic abusers owning firearms. We already passed it, but no one enforces it. It would eliminate a huge chunk of gun violence in the nation, but its not as appealing to the mob as the "assault style" ban.

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[–] bostonbananarama@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (20 children)

What do you propose?

I guess I'd ask you the same question. I don't have a proposal because I don't think any of it will make it through Congress. And if it somehow made it through Congress, the Supreme Court would strike it as unconstitutional.

Short of voting out these members of Congress and balancing the court, there's no hope of reform. So drop the issue to appeal to more voters. Win more elections, balance the court, then you're in a position to effect change.

Also, AWBs are pretty useless. They tend to grandfather in existing weapons and they exclude handguns, which are the weapon used most often to commit murder. Magazine limits, which were in the 1994 law, were the only piece to show a genuine reduction in violent crimes.

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