this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2023
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"We recognize that, in the next four years, our decision may cause us to have an even more difficult time. But we believe that this will give us a chance to recalibrate, and the Democrats will have to consider whether they want our votes or not."

That's gotta be one of the strangest reasonings I've heard in a while.

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

and the Democrats will have to consider whether they want our votes or not.

This thread indicates not.

Centrist Democrats have never considered that a party is obligated to represent people whose votes it needs.

[–] boywar3@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

I think its more that they kinda can't win. Trapped in the inertia of past governments propping up Israel...backing out of support fully is never going to happen. Best they can do is try to lean on Israel to ceasefire. Then of course there's the consideration for Jewish voters who support Israel, which iirc is a larger voting bloc than American Muslims.

Of course it is also amusing that Muslims are seemingly okay with getting Trump in, the guy who intentionally inflamed tensions in the Middle East.

Then of course there's also the danger of turning Dems against Muslims because of the perceived betrayal...which honestly I'd care a lot less about what happens to Muslims in America if they get Trump in.

Essentially, this is sorta like trying to create a hostage situation with a pistol at your own head.

[–] jonne@infosec.pub 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'd wager the majority of American Jews would actually approve of at least conditioning aid to Israel so they stop bombing civilian targets. And the ones that are pro-genocide, are probably already voting for Republicans.

[–] boywar3@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You're probably not wrong. It's an impossibly difficult problem to determine exactly what every voter wants.

Then of course we have to wonder all the non-public things that are keeping the US tied to Israel...would make it a lot easier to understand why things are happening as they are.

[–] jonne@infosec.pub 10 points 10 months ago

For one, the occupation is an amazing source of tools and tactics that end up being used by cops in the US to ~~occupy~~ police certain neighbourhoods.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Essentially, this is sorta like trying to create a hostage situation with a pistol at your own head.

Yeah, it doesn't work when the person you're attempting to extract concessions from doesn't care if you pull the trigger. And it's evident that Democrats would prefer Trump to even attempting to represent these people.

[–] boywar3@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

See, the problem here is that the Muslims can do whatever they want in this scenario, but the bottom line is that they have to accept the same shit as everyone else.

If I'm being honest, this whole stunt just looks like trying to force the democratic party into doing what they want at the expense of other, more numerous voters.

For example, I have to accept that Biden isn't going to do everything I want like go hard after the wealthy or force through student loan forgiveness. However, him being in power means my LGBT friends and family, as well as any female relatives and friends have protection for their rights and bodily autonomy.

It's not a great choice to have to make because our system sucks, but I have to make that call because Republicans will absolutely make things worse. In the cold, calculating world of politics, if I had to choose between my friends and family having rights or Palestinians not being killed...I'd pick my friends and family 10/10 times. Of course I'd rather have both, but that's the reality of the situation.

Then of course there's the whole question of why those Muslim people are in America (yes, I'm aware of how dangerously close this line of thinking gets to dipshit conservatives bitching about immigrants). Is making their current home demonstrably worse for them really a good idea?

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

See, the problem here is that the Muslims can do whatever they want in this scenario

Yeah, voters having free will is a problem for Democrats.

Then of course there’s the whole question of why those Muslim people are in America (yes, I’m aware of how dangerously close this line of thinking gets to dipshit conservatives bitching about immigrants).

You were already close to the line.

[–] boywar3@lemmy.world -3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Like are you dense or just being intentionally dishonest? I'm not saying it is a problem the Muslims have free will: I'm saying the problem is that they are free to do what they wish, but their actions will have consequences for them that are likely to not be worth it, so they need to accept tradeoffs like everybody else.

And then you don't bother actually responding to my arguments. Maybe try that next time in order to get meaningful responses.