this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2023
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[–] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Hmm, I don't think I'm with you. You say men are incels because they're poor and can't find a girl. From what I've seen, they can't find a girl because of deeply rooted, misogynistic beliefs that turn people off. If also like to see your citation for wage stagnation affecting men more than women, because every study I've seen says the wage gap has stayed the same or widened in the last few years. I know many, many men who aren't the strong hunter gatherer type and have loving wives or girlfriends. The difference is those guys aren't assholes.

[–] bozaloshtsh@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

they can’t find a girl because of deeply rooted, misogynistic beliefs that turn people off

People aren't born with misogynistic beliefs. They also aren't taught them in school.

also like to see your citation for wage stagnation affecting men more than women

I'm not going to google search for you, but it's pretty easy to see that wage stagnation affects men more because traditionally, men are expected to be the provider for the household and women have traditionally had the option of not starting a career and just finding a man instead. I'm not saying that women are not affected, but they have an economic "out" that men generally don't have.

I know many, many men who aren’t the strong hunter gatherer type and have loving wives or girlfriends. The difference is those guys aren’t assholes.

I'm willing to bet that they also have stable jobs. Also, if you're one of them of course you'd know a bunch of other men who are similar; this says nothing about a large swath of men that the grandparent comment is referring to.

[–] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

People aren't born with any beliefs. What's your explanation for racism, homophobia, fascism, and other hateful views and behavior? People learn that stuff by their environment growing up, and there's an awful lot of toxic masculinity.

And you're argument about poverty and wage stagnation would make more sense if there weren't so many poor people in happy marriages.

No, I hear your argument, but it doesn't seem to hold water to me. The simpler answer is that some men are taught to believe shitty things growing up. Those shitty things lead to shitty behaviors that cause people not to be around them. The worst ones are the ones who believe men should be dominant over women, but are also timid or introverted, making them angry pressure cookers.

[–] rocketeer8015@discuss.tchncs.de -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I think his point was that it’s ok for a woman to not earn much without it impacting her attractiveness to men, while the reverse isn’t true. There is a reason why rich millionaire falling in love with poor woman is a romance novel trope while not so much the other way around.

Finances are part of the attraction in a male if looking for actual relationships. You ain’t gonna impress a woman flipping burgers at McD while men on the other hand don’t care what a woman’s job is if she’s pretty and fun to be around.

[–] AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I understood the point, but my counter was that there are loads of poor people in living relationships. Are there women who aren't interested in a man who isn't "successful?" Absolutely, just like there are men who aren't interested in a woman who doesn't look like a supermodel. But is it too the point where, if you aren't a wealthy man, you can't get a date or find love? No, that's bullshit.

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