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How do you even say that? "Mexico Smith, can I get a hall pass?"
Here in Spain you see X or @ a lot.
Like senorxs or señor@s. Where the X or @ means 'o' or 'e' (male) or 'a' (female). I like the way they do this.
This has some issues as it doesn't include non-binary options. I think it's also more of a protest against the patriarchal nature of the Spanish language which always defaults to the male version in the case where the gender is unknown or a mix.
How is pronounced I don't really know. People don't really speak it in practice. It's more used written.
Spanish is my first language. Spanish defaults to masculine of words, but so do all Latin based languages. Here in the states we see Latinx. In Mexico and South America, "latine" is becoming prevalent.
Linguistically speaking, it's absurd. Polls in the USA, where Latinx was invented by uncomfortable, uninformed white people to try and be inclusive, show that 93% of the latino / hispanic population either disapprove of or don't care about it.
Edit: putting this up higher for visibility.
https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/11/901398248/hispanic-latino-or-latinx-survey-says
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/05/us/latinx-gallup-poll-preference-trnd/index.html
Use latine, it already exists in the language
I will refrain. Thanks.
Latine is so obviously the better choice, but no, 'Muricans have to anglicize it to make it theirs. 🙄
Use latine instead
But I'm in Spain. People here are not Latinos or Latinas :)
Hot take: gendered language doesn't serve any meaningful purpose and we should just get rid of it. There is no need for inanimate non-gendered objects to have a linguistic gender.
Or, you know, you could just get over it and realize that gender in language is not the same thing as gender in people. There's one African language, for example, that has 16 different genders.
Also, you are mistaken that linguistic gender doesn't serve a purpose. It does and there's a pretty extensive body of linguistic literature on the subject.
Fun fact; as with most of the other Germanic languages, English originally had three genders; masculine, feminine and neuter. They got stripped out of the language for reasons having to do with English history that are too technical to go into right now.
Can you link a layman's explanation of the value of grammatical gender regarding inanimate objects? After years of learning and being frustrated by French, I had come to the conclusion that grammatical gender was stupid and served no purpose, but I'd love to have a better understanding of its value.
Again, this isn't coming from a position of "prove me wrong, buttfart". This is coming from "I'd like to learn more and have a better understanding of something I'm probably just not getting."
And German still has those genders, and as you rightly said, they have nothing to do with gender identity.
The only issue here is gendered pronouns and other forms of address that rely on the gender of the person being discussed. Nobody cares whether a table is masculine or feminine, but they do care whether your parent's sibling is a male or female because in many languages, there's no word to eliminate that information. That's the issue here, and the solution isn't to rewrite the entire concept of gender in languages, but instead to introduce and popularize genderless pronouns and titles. I know I hate saying "how many uncles and aunts do you have," especially since I know that doesn't necessarily cover all of the person's parents' siblings. Give me words like "cousin" so I don't need to separate people by gender in casual conversation unless it's actually relevant.
Hot take: person who only speaks English thinks everyone should just speak English.
It's still entirely non-standard, and not explicitly protected under law.
By all means, push the bounds; and I would hope you establish legal precedent. However, there is little that offers prior circumstance; you are still arguing how things should be, rather than how things are right now. Because of that, courts are not a sufficient venue, it must be argued at the political level.
I agree that Mx is made up bullshit, much like "Latinx" is nonsense in Spanish, but the law does not make any such distinction. You cannot be discriminated against in your job based on your sexual identity, even if you identified as an Apache helicopter ("oh yes daddy, let me fuck you in your missile tubes" - "hah, as if you'd even touch the sides").
Boo, get new material.
Seriously, sexually identifying as an Apache helicopter? Go back to edgy 2012.
I'm merely pointing to that as a ridiculous exception that is still technically valid in this instance. Sexual identity is a protected class, if only in matters of employment.
Frankly, I think it should be a universally protected class, in almost all cases and for all classifications, but it bears mentioning the limitations of the law.
Boy do I have bad news for you about every other word that exists in every single language. There is no word tree we harvest fresh ripe new words from, everything is made up. We are just meat squirting air through our various holes because we like the sounds they make and wish to communicate thought.
Who wants to meet meat?
If they'd both dressed as Mark Twain they surely would've resolved their dispute.
Something being made up doesn't make it bullshit, but something made up by a tiny minority within a minority expecting everyone else to adopt it certainly does.
Is it really so hard to respect a person enough to address them with the courtesy title they ask you to use? Are you in any way inconvenienced by saying "Hello Mx. TWeaK, how are you today"?
No, but unless someone tells me that they want to be referred to as "Mx" I shouldn't be expected to assume that. Furthermore, when they tell me and my natural response is "Huh?" I shouldn't be vilified for not knowing what they mean - neither should they be vilified for coming up with a personal definition that suits them better.
It's a two way street. You're free to be yourself and to stand out from the crowd, but doing so naturally invites inquesition. Such inquesition is not inherently malicious, even if malicious people are more likely to ask questions.
The reasonable ground is somewhere in between. Noisy people on either side demand that they be seen as right, but the fact is they're both an insignificant minority with an unobjective opinion. One minority is smaller and more vulnerable, and that should be taken into consideration, but that doesn't mean everything they say is right.
Question: "I shouldn’t be expected to assume that. Furthermore, when they tell me and my natural response is “Huh?” I shouldn’t be vilified for not knowing what they mean"
Who has ever done this to you. Ever. Who have you met that asked you to address them in a specific way then got pissy at you over it? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but neither me nor anyone I know nor anyone who knows a person I know has ever had this happen to them.
Also: "and that should be taken into consideration, but that doesn’t mean everything they say is right."
How can someone be wrong about the courtesy title that they choose to use? Like the entire concept and name 'courtesy title' make it pretty clear what they are about.
No one. At the same time, people here seem to be getting a little pissy over the thought of asking the question or not immediately accepting any answer - hence my statement in clarification. My statement is confined to the hypotheticals in our conversation, dismissing them out of hand would be hypocritical.
First, my statement that it "doesn’t mean everything they say is right" is meant to cover extreme limits, it doesn't explicitly refer to things we've said but things that could potentially be extrapolated from that. I'm trying to form a concise statement that covers as much as possible.
Second, using a "courtesty title" and even people accepting that does not mean the courtesy title is not "made up bullshit". People accept bullshit all the time - just look at Trump supporters. It's only when the made up idea is accepted by a critical mass that it ceases to be bullshit; and even then, it could still be reasonably labelled as bullshit, particularly if it doesn't have a logical origin.
Maybe "Mx." as an abbreviation for "Mix" has some logical origin, but at the same time it doesn't really fit in line with "Mister, Miss, Missus", and it certainly isn't established like those terms are nor is it immediately apparent what the abbreviation is short for.
Some measure of rejection should be expected when you're asking people to adapt their native language to suit yourself. Your personal expression should not dictate how others express themselves in communication; communicating is a mutual process between people, without an agreement on terminology things are neither right nor wrong, it's all just made up bullshit until we agree - and even then...
Like "mix". It's fairly simple to most people who have common sense and aren't actively trying to be offended over nothing.
I pronounce it phonetically precisely because this is not an abbreviation of any word. But honestly I have no idea, this asking.
And I thought it is m-ex, like reading the letter "x".
It's pronounced emacs
I'm more of a 'vi' guy.
:q
It's not immediately intuitive in my opinion, but it does make sense once you remember that other M- honorifics start "Mi". Mister, missus, miss. Then it makes sense to follow, mix.
I think some people use it one way and others the other. I don't think there's one universal correct way.
I've heard it both ways. I'm sure no one would be offended either way you say it.
You're the divisive one here, suggesting people are hateful for having legitimate questions.
It's so simple, just like Mr. Is pronounced merr.
You're very much part of the problem.
Your version of "common sense" in this situation only applies to a small minority that naturally extrapolates beyond the meaning of the statement alone.
"Mx." as a prefix is not in any way established in common vernacular, nor does it easily make sense unless you assume they're doing something specific that most people don't do.
However, the law says that anyone is free to do so as they please; you can sexually identify in any way and must not be discriminated against for that in terms of your employment.