this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2023

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320

Florida teacher fired for using gender-neutral honorific ‘Mx.’ (www.nbcnews.com)

submitted 10 months ago by YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

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[–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 65 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I am glad someone is calling the Florida school system on their bullshit. Being non-binary hard and being treated like the coping mechanisms you use for avoiding hating the experience of dealing with people and existing in your body are somehow a delusion, some sort of sexual kink or deliberately confusing is like trying to go about your day with weights strapped to you. It makes dealing with every social interaction so tiring. It really feels like everybody else in the room is obsessed with your sex organs and characteristics like complete perverts that they don't see the question is about how happy you are and how you feel about all the people in your life and whether you feel anxious and isolated being around them or just comfortable and able to express your full range of personhood.

This teacher is standing up because they know there's others much worse off who aren't secure enough to do it. Pretty admirable I think.

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This isn't calling out Florida schools, this only calls out Florida employers. A teacher can be directed not to talk about gay in matters of education, and can be fired for not following such direction, but they cannot be discriminated against for their own sexual identity as a matter of their employment.

US law is shite.

[–] Ranvier@sopuli.xyz 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That's a good point. Gorsuch's surprising cross over to rule with the liberal justices in a recent supreme court ruling (Bostock vs Clayton County) allowed gender and sexual identifies to be protected by current federal employment law. The very logical conclusion that comes from, any discrimination on the basis of sexual or gender identity revolves around a person' s assigned sex at birth, which is definitely prohibited, and you can't discriminate on those things without it being an illegal discrimination test based on sex. Basically if you fire someone assigned male at birth for wearing a dress but not someone assigned female at birth for wearing a dress, this is sex discrimination, already protected by current federal law. Similarly if you're firing a male for marrying a male but not firing a female for marrying a male, than that's sex discrimination already prohibited by current law.

Unfortunately I don't know if the current Supreme Court reasoning would extend the existing federal law to protect non binary honorifics, since the school could argue it would fire anyone using a non binary honorific regardless of that person's assigned sex at birth. But this is why we need a real updated federal law explicity protecting against discrimination on the basis of sexual and gender identifies, including non binary identities. In the meantime the states that do have explicit protections in their state laws are going to be much better places for non cis and hetero people to work in.

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

Very interesting and informative, thanks.

We absolutely do need updated Federal law, discrimination in general should be simplified and more comprehensive. It's somewhat strange that Title II doesn't cover sex - I can understand why (eg women's hostels only allowing women) but I feel this should be an exception to a rule, not an absence of any rule whatsoever. Title II already has an exemption for "private clubs" so it wouldn't be that unusual.

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 20 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act explicitly prohibits discrimination because of sex in matters of employment. Florida is free to prevent teachers from teaching things, but they cannot fire people for their own sexual identity, per federal law.
Meanwhile, Title II of CRA covers interstate commerce and prohibits discrimination because of race, color, religion, or national origin - but not sex. Under Federal Law, if your business has a lot of out of state customers (primarily hospitality) or includes supply chains that cross state lines, you can't discriminate on race, etc but you can discriminate on sex.
The 14th Amendment states that the law must apply to everyone equally. However, this only applies to governments (and their contractors) - a black person cannot be refused to be heard in court and a gay person cannot be refused a marriage.

The way US law is supposed to work is that states can set their own laws where Federal Law doesn't cover it. However, they must do this within the bounds of Federal Law. This is why we have 1st Amendment challenges against state laws that fill in the gaps of federal law - a business can discriminate based on sex, or any other reason (so long as they don't fall under Title II), even if state law says otherwise.

US law is so shit. It's unnecessarily hard to read, distributed across multiple yet interwoven jurisdictions, and full of holes. But hey, at least it isn't financial regulations - reading those will cause a sane person to lose the will to live.

TL;DR This should be a slam dunk for the teacher, per Federal Law: Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, which overrules anything the states write. However, who knows how the current Supreme Court might try to spin it - if they even opt to hear it (they absolutely should).

[–] enki@lemm.ee 11 points 10 months ago

The teacher will make millions from the settlement, paid squarely out of the pocket of working Floridians. And despite that, half the state will continue voting for politicians and supporting police whose actions have no real consequences for them - the tax payers will foot the bill for their actions. Until we start hitting these people in their own pocket books and pensions, their behavior won't change.

[–] Bgugi@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

This may not be the slam dunk you think it is. To the best of my understanding, the current coverage under title vii for gender and sexuality has only been extended so far as "would this behaviour be unacceptable for the opposite sex?"

Florida could argue (within the scope of existing supreme Court decisions) that the use of certain "new" titles are never acceptable, regardless of the person's sex.

As written, the rule is illegal, but it could possibly be upheld in the context of this specific case.

[–] enki@lemm.ee 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

They would have to argue that sex and gender are not the same thing in court, under oath. It's been a longstanding argument for the GOP that they are the same. And if they argue biological sex and gender are not 1:1, then they're acknowledging that a different gender identity than one's birth sex is possible, and setting that precedent immediately takes the wind out of a lot of their arguments on transgender folk.

[–] SheeEttin@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

They'll be happy to say one thing in public and argue another in court. For example, when Fox News argued that a reasonable person is not expected to believe anything Tucker Carlson is saying.

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[–] vodkasolution@feddit.it 12 points 10 months ago (2 children)

However, regular guys from Florida succeeded in being waaaay worse than the memed Florida Man, good job guys

[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago

"Florida Man" is a representation of all the US. The only difference is that Florida allows the publication of personal information about people for merely being arrested, let alone accused or even actually convicted of a crime. This gives a disproportionate view of how bad Florida is - it isn't that much worse than most other US states.

But it is worse. The whole state is literally a swamp, and Ron DeSantis is a war criminal, alongside his criminal actions as Governor (eg using ringfenced state money to benefit other states and his friend who owns a chartered airline business).

[–] UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca 3 points 10 months ago

Florida Mx if you want to lose your job.

[–] MxM111@kbin.social 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

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[–] Nougat@kbin.social 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

We call people what they want to be called. (Credit for this to Charlie Worroll from Crimelines and other podcasts)

[–] Zron@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I agree.

That being said, how do you pronounce this? Is it Mix? Mixter? Mizz(that sounds too close to ms)

[–] SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Just like "mix"

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[–] vodkasolution@feddit.it 3 points 10 months ago

Repression has historically always won... right? !

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