this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
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Or we get rid of the circumstances that led to them becoming bank robbers.
Hamas does not just magically get support. People have been pushed to extremism by oppressive apartheid rule and genocide. TO BE CLEAR Hamas is bad and I am not justifying their actions. If you want to stop creating extremists you're an idiot if you thinking harming a bunch of civilians in your attempt to wipe them out is going to help.
What a fairy tale solution. Too bad it only works in fairy tales.
It's a "fairy tale" to think that increasing the oppression that created extremists in the first place is going to suddenly stop radicalizing people.
Neither is letting them fire rockets towards you for years on end. There is only so much you can do with bank robbers that are funded by others around them, who believe it's their god given duty to rob banks. TO BE CLEAR civilians being killed is terrible on either side, just one side is putting a lot of effort into making bomb shelters and missile defense, while the other is putting in a lot of effort into creating tunnels to store and smuggle rockets.
In 2020 the US gave Isreal $3.8 billion. If you think Hamas is nearly as funded you're bad at math. I'm down to give Hamas an iron dome.
Do you think the effort is going towards tunnels and rockets because they're inherently evil or do you want to think about the variables that caused this situation. Variables like apartheid, genocide, Israel's military advantage, etc.
The US likely thinks that the nation state that was established by the UN to provide a home for a people victimized by an attempt to eradicate Jews in Europe is worth defending. I'm no fan of any of this shit, but as someone else recently pointed out, if Hamas stops receiving funding, the likely result is less conflict. If Israel stops receiving funding, three likely result is that they will be wiped off the face of the earth in short order. I believe there is truth to that.
If the US had given Hamas $3.8 billion, it definitely wouldn't have been used for an iron dome.
Yes I do believe Hamas is inherently evil, the same way I believe the north Korean leadership is evil.
Plenty of variables to take into account, and it's understandable how they got like this, but the same way a lot of serial killers have an abusive upbringing, does not mean everyone with an abusive upbringing will be a serial killers.
Plenty of that money has gone to killing Palestinian children. We need a more equitable distribution of resources if we're sending money over. I don't think we need equal amounts of rockets, but aid and a cease fire. If you don't trust the channels that money will go to that's what we have 3rd party humanitarian groups for.
You can think Hamas is evil. That wasn't my point. What do you think makes normal people turn into the types of people that join Hamas?
Do you want to reduce the amount of serial killers? You reduce the amount of abusive upbringing.
Do you want to reduce the amount of extremists?
Maybe we should send ~~Hamas~~ the Palestinian people more water pipes.
Gazans not having access to clean water and electricity at the hands of an oppressor is going to radicalize people against that oppressor.
I would like to reduce the casualties of Palestinian and Isreali citizens as much as possible. To come down harder on Palestinian civilians for the actions of Hamas is to send more people into the arms of Hamas.
Learn from the actions of the US post 9/11. The increase in terror attacks against US civilians was a consequence of US foreign policy. Isreal is not trying to have a humanitarian presence. Isreali people are hurt by the consequences of these oppressive policies.
Again, I am not justifying the actions of Hamas. Discussing the reasons for their actions is not an endorsement. If you want to stop systemic issuess you have to look at the root causes.
Fair points. I think that other guy was referring to Hamas apparently digging up water mains to use as materiel for building rockets. That sounded like bullshit to me but I've seen that story everywhere lately