this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2023
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¿¿Que?? (mander.xyz)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by fossilesque@mander.xyz to c/memes@lemmy.ml
 
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[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 28 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Yeah, I never got the upside-down questionmark as well 😂.

[–] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 49 points 1 year ago (3 children)

In Spanish questions are phrased the same way as affirmations, when you are speaking the only difference is the intonation. Without a mark to say you are starting to read a question it's possible that the meaning changes in the end which would be annoying. (Source: Portuguese is the same but has no inverted question mark, and sometimes it's mighty annoying, especially with long questions)

[–] octoperson@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 year ago

Portuguese is the same but has no inverted question mark, and sometimes it's mighty annoying,

¿What if you just used them anyway?
¡Problem solved!

[–] Anamana@feddit.de 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah that's true for any language really

[–] IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Not really. In my language subject and verb get switched around in a question. So you immediately know it’s a question when you start reading the sentence.

[–] Anamana@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Can you give me an example?

Edit: Ok thanks guys, I got it :D

[–] araozu@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Maybe

  • I do like cats
  • Do I like cats?

but taken to the extreme?

[–] IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)
  • Hij schreef een bericht. (He wrote a message)

  • Schreef hij een bericht? (Did he wrote a message?)

[–] stebo02@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

In Dutch you can often tell it's a question from the start because the order of verb and object have changed.

[–] stebo02@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Zeg eens, waarom wil je zo graag met een CEO slapen?

[–] IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Fuck Spez daarom

[–] aka_oscar@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

Can you give me an example - Question

You can give me an example - Affirmation

[–] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know you already got it but a few others came to my mind:

Finnish, which not a tonal language:

  • Sinä pidät kahvista. (“You like coffee.”)
  • Pidätkö kahvista? ("You like coffee?")

Japanese:

  • Anata wa kōhī ga sukidesu. ("You like coffee.")
  • Kōhī wa sukidesu ka? ("You like coffee?")

I think you'll find the pattern of question words/suffixes in nearly every language that is not explicitly tonal.

[–] Anamana@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

Yeah that's initially why I thought there was no difference to Spanish. But the difference is Spanish actually doesn't have an option where you switch subject and verb. Didn't know that :)

[–] Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

É de facto irritante. Nada como estar na escola e um prof pede para ler. Estás calmamente a ler o texto e de repente tens de forçar a porcaria da entoação para sobrecompensar o facto de que não reparaste que era uma pergunta

[–] lorty@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's so you can start reading a sentence in the correct intonation

[–] magnetosphere@kbin.social 22 points 1 year ago

This can’t be right. It’s far too simple and logical. I’m a native English speaker, and I’m used to grammar that’s nonsensical and inconsistent.

[–] araozu@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

In spanish questions intonation changes occur only on the last word(s), not the whole sentence. I'm not a linguistic, but I think it's so you can be sure a sentence is a question from the start.

When reading english sometimes I assume a sentence is an affirmation until I see the question mark, and then I have to reinterpret the sentence. I wonder how it is for native english speakers. Do they assume nothing until the sentence is finished?

[–] lorty@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

You are indeed right, my explanation was poor. But for other languages it is very common to get surprised at the end of sentences, yes.

[–] curiosityLynx@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In spanish questions intonation changes occur only on the last word(s), not the whole sentence. I'm not a linguistic, but I think it's so you can be sure a sentence is a question from the start.

That might be the case in the dialect you're familiar with, but "¿Me dijiste que no te moleste?" has a different intonation to "Me dijiste que no te moleste." in my Spanish (starting from "dijiste").

As for English, questions normally start either with a question word or a (auxiliary) verb, while affirmations normally start with the subject. See "You told me not to bother you." vs. "Did you tell me not to bother you?". Using just intonation is possible ("You told me not to bother you?!??"), but when in writing, it's usually formatted in a way that highlights it because it usually indicates outrage/disbelief.

[–] araozu@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Interesting. Afaik what determines a question is a higher pitch, so in your sentence I wouldn't think of the sentence as a question until I hear the intonation of the last word.

Like, toda la oracion puede tener cualquier tono, pero si la última palabra tiene un tono mas agudo (molesteee en vez de moleste) recien cuenta como pregunta.

Me puse a pensar y escuchar conversaciones, fijandome si el tono cambia siempre en la ultima palabra, o en algun otro lado, y en donde vivo (casi) siempre el tono cambia en la ultima palabra, incluso solo la ultima silaba.

Me pregunto si de donde eres toda la oracion (o, desde "dijiste") el tono es más agudo, o si usan otra forma para diferenciar?

[–] curiosityLynx@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

The higher pitch for the entire sentence is another option in my Spanish, but indicates outrage.

The version where you hear it's supposed to be a question from the word "dijiste" is more of a request for information, like if your mom yelled something and you're not sure if she said "No me molestes" or "No te sorpreses" or something else that sounds vaguely similar or if she was actually yelling at a fly that was going on her nerves.

The sentence overall becomes more melodic, with the stressed syllables getting a higher pitch and more defined stress.

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In English most questions stay flat and only raises the pitch on the last syllable, if any. In Spanish we can raise the pitch on the first word and stay flat for the rest of the question. That's what's useful about the ¿

[–] bleistift2@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 1 points 1 year ago

Yes, that would be better 👍.