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And some terrorist supporters here on Lemmy were trying to explain to us that they were just casually "transporting" the body of a dead woman and that they weren't doing anything disgusting with her. We all know what islamist terrorists do when they spot a young woman, to pretend that Hamas is any different from ISIS is to be completely delusional.
Palestinians will lose more and more support (mine already) as long as they keep shielding the Islamist animals of Hamas.
EDIT: also thank goodness for !world@lemmy.world, because others like !worldnews@lemmy.ml are run by terrorist supporters (see for yourself in their modlog: https://lemmy.ml/modlog/14788)
So question, can you be anti terrorist and anti Israel?
Why not? Hell I’m Jewish and I think the Israeli govt is regularly in the wrong and I feel for the people of Israel that could have better lives and those the govt harms. I also think Hamas is evidently wretched and those perpetrating these abhorrent acts deserve everything coming to them.
Unfortunately, while I’m sure Hamas will suffer, the civilians of both Israel and Palestine will once again bear the true cost of this conflict.
Jew here too, Netanyahu is a corrupt fascist cunt.
how dare you! don't you know that the Palestinians mine controlled Hitler into doing the holocaust?
the scary part, Netanyahu said this, just less exaggerated.
I don’t support either group here. But the reason this continues to be such a contentious issue is the decades of mistakes and extreme conflict that lead to the current state of things there. The entire area has been in cyclic conflict for hundreds of years, this is merely a continuation of that with the complexities of post ww2 short sighted and racist policies enacted by the allied powers influencing the way things have played out.
Israel is a far right authoritarian state and they are brutal in how they choose to operate. Palestine is a hotbed for terrorism and is equally brutal in the guerrilla tactics they employ.
External influence from western and Islamic countries fuels the flames. It’s a disaster and a mess.
There’s genuinely no two state solution. As long as these two groups share this place they will always fight. And there’s no resolution that doesn’t see everyone else dragged into yet another proxy war.
Personally I think this will see some of the most major developments in this conflict in decades. The repercussions of this act will be large scale and relentless. But the Israelis will quickly find themselves in a quagmire if they try to occupy Palestine in any major capacity. It won’t be over quickly. Many will die.
But I suspect that’s where we are heading.
I just don’t see what the goal was for hamas other than to spread terror and I guess push Israel to retaliate. I suppose their goal is to make them commit war crimes and shift public sentiment? Or maybe draw in Arab neighbors to assist again (it went so well last time). They had to know there would be a major reprisal and it would not be an equal fight.
I suspect this is it. There’s been a lot of back and forth but I do not believe Israel will be walked back to the table here, this was far and beyond anything that can just be forgiven. This is a 9/11 level event for this country and having seen American fury and rage after that I can only assume the same will be seen here.
Yeah i think we are no longer coming back to the table. And what’s interesting is that there’s precedent for this both ways. Obviously an occupation would be bloody and violent and in general they fail to uproot the terrorists cells, instead only further instigating them and driving people to their cause.
But at the same time you can look at what happened in Sri Lanka. They had terrorists operating in the country for decades. Same sort of deal. Only there the military operation persisted and eventually through vicious brutality they drove them into a corner and forced their retreat. While the country continues to experience turmoil and issues, the era of the militant Tamils is a shadow of what it once was.
I don’t know how it will play out but there’s going to be quite a bit more blood shed. They’ll pay for every dead Israeli with ten of their own.
There were essentially no Jews (<2%) living in the areas of Israel and Palestine before the Zionist colonization movement in the late 1800's.
You're trying to make it seem like this modern day thing is even remotely related to the past, which it isn't.
There’s a clear distinction between the sort of age of crusades and modern post ww2 geopolitics that generated the current conflict, but to suggest that there’s not been a near continuous level of conflict in the area between Jews, Muslims, and Christians is disingenuous.
This is like saying the BLM movement in America has nothing to do with slavery.
It's not disingenuous. Jewish people literally just weren't there until very recently. You're talking like 1000+ years ago.
This is the central question everyone can't agree on, right? Which group that conquered the region and eradicated their enemies has the "rights" to the land? I'm seriously ignorant on the subject, and more than happy to delete this comment if it's not really adding to anything, but we're calibrating our standards of who has the rights to a region based on what the latest Empire said, be it Ottomans or Romans or however far back we want to go, until we're talking literally Neolithic folks showing up, right? I'm not religious, so there's a critical part of this conflict I simply cannot fundamentally understand.
The difference between making claims based on occupation in the late 1800s versus late 800s seems arbitrary, to me. That said, I know that can sound patently ridiculous, since we're talking generations we can count on one hand versus the same number of Empires controlling the land: so this is where I throw my hands up and just cry a little. Solidarity to everyone suffering oppression and terrorism, in whatever forms they take.
Sure, you can always be hated by everybody. That's generally my MO in most things. I think Hamas is a terrorist Islamic group and the Likud are ur-fascists.
You can do anything as long as you work hard and believe in yourself
I don't think that's true :(
Not if you have a smooth brain, no
Nope unless you consider israel as the terrorists, which from the point of view of palestinians is true.
It's possible to oppose Hamas and the Israeli government at the same time. Hamas being fundamentalist terrorists doesn't retroactively justify the Israeli government forcing millions of people into ghettos without access to clean water and regularly subjecting them to state violence. Or the ongoing settlement program, where Palestinian towns are forcibly evacuated and their property/homes stolen and given to Israeli settlers.
Two things can Both be bad at once, especially since the only reason Hamas exists is because of the desperation of Palestinians caused by Israeli state policy. Netanyahu's government even gave them money at one point, because Hamas is good for his political goals. Hamas prevents a more democratic, progressive resistance to the occupation from forming, which makes it easier for Netanyahu's government to justify their ongoing genocide/ethnic cleansing.
Ok but one of those is funny "reason:explaining antisemitism to a Jewish person"
I didn't read what they actually said but that got a solid chuckle from me
I didn't know the pope of jewdaism was a lemmee admin. What an honour.
Both things can be bad… you know that? Right?
And sometimes one side is much worse than the other.
So which far right extremist theocracy is worse in this case?
I'd go with the one parading executed civilians and spitting on their bodies tbh.
this sadly does not narrow it down
Mine is gone.
I never exactly condoned them, but this is the first time in my adult life they've gone out of their way to personally harm innocent civilians. It's such a shocking and brutal display that I don't know how anyone could carry water for them anymore -- at the very least, this makes them equal to the Israeli government, so someone whose horrified at the treatment of Palestinians by Israel should be just as horrified here.
It bears mentioning that in no way does Hamas represent all Palestinians, too. Hamas is hurting them too by hiding in civilian buildings and using the people effectively as shields. It's unconscionable to hide in hospitals and mosques after doing something like this, they're purposely daring Israel to make everyone around them into collateral.
It is in everyone's benefit for Hamas to be wiped out and destroyed.
Except the there are only three real ways for Israel to kill Hamas. Getting rid of every Palestinian so the are no Palestinians to get angry and turn to desperate measures. Enforcing an authoritarian state where all civil liberties are taken away from Palestinians. Or firmly rejecting expansion into areas where Palestinians live, harshly prosecuting any who discriminate against Palestinians, letting them self govern, and energizing their economy to lift standards of living drastically. An end to everything Israel does to hurt Palestinians and help themselves that Israel can do. Huge concessions to try and make up for all the shit they've done.
The ethnical option will clearly not be chosen by the current government, and the US, obligated by their desire to have allies in the middle east, will help them try to accomplish some combination of the first two options. It's awful.
where was this outrage when Israel targeted civilians?
Oh it was there, I was outraged at that as well. I believe it was Israel who accidentally killed an American journalist and refused to release evidence for some time?
There are no good guys here, by a longshot.
"Accidentally"
This is what Islamic fascism does when they think they have enough power. A Turkish leader said "Democracy is a train which you can use to reach your target."
Wasn't that what she was actually wearing? Why do people assume assaults occurred?