this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2023
914 points (91.3% liked)
Technology
59590 readers
5639 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I'm technical and I still prefer Windows at home. Linux, as great as it can be for development, is not great for everyone. It doesn't "just work." My favourite example of Linux not "just" working is when Linus tried to install Steam on Pop_OS. He accidentally nuked the entire desktop. I could have easily done the same if I wasn't paying careful attention. One should never, ever be able to destroy their OS by installing Steam. That's part of the issue. When things go wrong, all of the instructions which present on Google are people providing terminal commands. Unless one is very comfortable with using the terminal, they're going to be copying and pasting these commands in and hoping for the best. This is what went wrong for Linus. This is far worse than following GUI based troubleshooting techniques which guide the user through defined and safe resolutions.
This over-reliance on the terminal is pervasive, and I find myself having to use it for everything from basic OS configuration to software installation to software configuration to drivers to hardware installation and troubleshooting. Every year I boot up a new flavour just to see if things have improved, and they haven't. Ultimately Linux is built by developers, for developers. That's great, and it does many things really well. I've just come to accept that it doesn't do consumer stuff very well. It lacks the UX polish present in Windows and MacOS, and most consumers like that. It fails especially hard when it comes to gaming. I literally cannot install any of my Fanatec wheel/peddle/shifter peripherals in any distro. Only 18% of games on ProtonDB are Tier 1. Even of those, it doesn't guarantee a trouble-free experience. Half the top streamed Twitch games just don't run on Linux at all, or require absurd workarounds and suffer from terrible performance.
I'll keep using Linux for my home server, but it's along way from replacing my PC or laptop OS.
There was nothing accidental about Linus. He did it on purpose, the system very clearly told him not to.
And Proton works much better than you imply. I don't know about their new "tiered" rating, but 30% games get Platinum rating (top 1000 most popular titles by player count). Besides that 45% have Gold, and nowadays more often than not that means the game simply just works.
Trying to say "oh, but it doesn't always work perfect!" is just nonsense.
How many games work perfectly without any issues on Windows?
And please don't say anything about "UI polish" on Windows when it can't even keep all its UI consistent - it'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.
And Twitch... almost every game in top #10 works perfectly without any troubles, so what's your point exactly?
Happend to me without any warning.
I wanted to uninstall icons from the GUI and it did remove all desktop environment.
I had the exact same thing happen to me once, except I didn't get an ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE warning. It just listed a bunch of packages like it always did, except this time it was listing packages it was about to remove, not packages that could be upgraded like it usually does. That was 8 years ago, so maybe they added the warning some time after that? But by that point I'd already dealt with enough issues that I just lost all motivation to use Linux as a desktop anymore. It's just always something.
No, the system asked him if he was sure he wanted to install Steam. He was.
You think telling players that 30% of their games are playable without issue is a benefit. What I read is that 70% of my games are not guaranteed to run.
I’m not sure how you can compare different menu styles with allowing the entire OS to self destruct. That’s quite the disingenuous comparison.
Of the top 10 video games playes on Twitch right now, these games either don’t run at all, or Proton reports game-breaking issues:
M
No, the steam install failed, and he went looking for solutions and one of the potential solutions he found literally says "proceeding might break your system, continue?" And he said yes. The thing that broke his system had nothing to do with steam apart from being recommended by someone somewhere to fix the issue he was having.
Also you can very much play GTA V on Linux.
You know when's the last time I nuked my Windows install from trying out suggestions on how to fix a failing steam install? Never.
If you think this should be a normal thing to happen, you can just continue to dream of seeing Linux desktop ever reaching mainstream status.
And I never did it on Linux either. Just because Linus is a dumbass who can't read doesn't mean you should disregard an entire os.
It's pretty clear you're doing your best to misrepresent the reality, so arguing any further is useless...
Check you facts, see what Linus really did, as a self-proclaimed technical person you should be able to understand very clear warnings he ignored after running random commands he didn't understand.
Maybe read again. 75% of the most popular games on Steam have at least Gold rating, which means they have minor glitches or need trivial workarounds.
You've brought up the point about UI polish.
You're the one trying to compare UI polish to ignoring simple warnings.
Breaking your system on purpose does not quality as self-destruct.
I also do programming and am fairly used to the terminal, and I still have a headache when thinking of going back to linux, because even when I want to do something as simple as watching netflix on firefox I had to go through a maze of troubleshooting via the terminal to get the correct packages installed. I can't imagine what someone who isn't tech savvy who tries to switch to linux would do.
The user experience on linux and its distributions just aren't there for the everyday user, and until they are, windows will always be the preferable choice because it actually works. You don't have to end up having a dispute with it on some arbitrary software download because it doesn't quite like it, and have to wrangle through many software alternatives that aren't always available or even anywhere near feature ready because they aren't available on the platform.
I only use my over speed PC for one thing. Gaming. I've looked into going to Linux and shuddered at the immense trouble trying to make it work for me. I'm with you in that I have the knowledge, having used it for a couple decades, but I just don't care to put myself through mountains of bullshit for an idea.
This is actually funny because I installed steam on pop os without issues. But that said, sometimes it freeze my whole pc and I have to hard reboot it (idk why)
edit: I don't understand the down votes, it was supposed to be (as stated) funny and not insulting
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
when Linus tried to install Steam on Pop_OS.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Linus fucked up his os by entering the command that prompted him "are you absolutely sure this is what you want to do? if you don't know, then it isnt." and presed yes. windows does the same when doing a factory restore, if you click "yes i'm sure" then that's on you. yes, ideally steam worked and he wouldn't have had to try to fix it, but that kind of thing happens all the time on all software, linux just gives you the option of fixing it yourself instead of going "welp i'm not using that".
this fix-it yourself mode of functionning is really what sets it apart from other OSes, for examp,e if you have a windows problem good luck finding anything beyond "have you tried dism /online?", which by the way is also a console command and is like the very first step in all windows troubleshooting.
as for gaming, I daily drive debian and i'm not really encountering any setbacks beyond the obvious "this game developpers is incapable of making a linux anti-cheat so it won't run on there at all" problem, or its cousin "this game developper is incapable of going into their EAC dashboard and click 'enable linux support'" (yes, it is that easy, i have done it personally).
Also worth mentionning that Linus is accused by ex-employees of misconduct, and is generally an asshat when it comes to technology despite being a technology reviewer.
The thing with your first statement is there's so many times dealing with software when you are meant to just click 'yes I'm sure' that I've become desensitised to those warnings.
And see, this is the kind of bullshit response that drives home why, even using it for a ton of things myself, I absolutely hate having to use Linux. Any time you ever encounter a problem, you always get the absolute shittiest responses imaginable from people. It's always your fault for being such a filthy uneducated peasant, and never the OS's for being incredibly unintuitive and esoteric at times.
"How do I do 'thing'?" invariably receives a response of "What kind of fucking idiot are you for wanting to do 'thing'? No one should ever do 'thing'. Thread closed"
After using Windows for nearly 25 years at this point and doing thousands of installs, do you know how many times I've encountered some basic thing that's utterly broken, and hasn't been fixed by one of the basic commands like dism or some other relatively painless fix? I can probably count it on a single hand. Do you know how many times I've used even very "friendly" distros of Linux and spent at least tens of hours having to fix something that completely shit the bed after doing something basic like Linus did? Damn near every single time.
Here's the thing: I don't mind dealing with those issues (aside from any time I have to ask questions, see the aforementioned community behavior), because I like fixing things and appreciate the incredible power and flexibility Linux offers, hence why I use it for my dev machine, homelab setup, etc. But 99.9% of the population is never going to put up with that shit, and the insanely toxic community doesn't help things either.
Also, nice ad hominem there. I had no idea that being a shitty person made it okay for the OS to nuke the desktop environment when trying to install Steam. I guess if it only happens to asshats, then it's totally okay then.
@skyspydude1
Trying to spread some FUD towards Linux and the Linux community, are you?
From his perspective, he was sure he wanted to install Steam. I don’t understand why you find that confusing. It’s only people with experience who understand that that message might indicate a system incompatibility, and it might nuke the OS. IMHO, no consumer OS should ever run the risk of being broken by installing Steam. There is no excuse for that.
No, this kind of thing doesn’t happen all the time on Windows. There’s no way to nuke Windows by installing Steam.