this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2023
1140 points (90.6% liked)
Memes
45528 readers
1071 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Cool, now try being the renter who paid off your mortgage for 20 years and has nothing to show for it.
The system is exploitative to both sides if they have low capital. The only winners are the capitalists who already have more than enough.
I agree there is a problem where people that rent and want to own can’t because of affordability. However, renting is less risky. Renters aren’t on the hook for major problems with a property. Imagine a leak goes undiscovered and causes major damage and mold to your apartment. What do you do as a renter? You move out, find a new place, and maybe even sue your landlord for damages and health impact.
What does your landlord do? Try to find enough money to cover the repairs, vacancy, and hire a lawyer.
Let’s not act like renting isn’t without its benefits. I think the factor most people overlook when they think about owning property is RISK. Risk means you could lose something or be liable. Renters have limited risk. If you’re taking on risk, you should be rewarded for it, otherwise you wouldn’t do it. Also, the reward is supposed to make you resilient to risks materializing. If the reward isn’t big enough, then when a risk materializes into a real problem, you won’t have enough capital to recover from it and you’ll go bankrupt.
Who rents for 20 years and then acts all surprised that they don't own the house? If your end goal is to own a house, start by buying a house. If you can afford to rent and pay off someone else's mortgage then you can certainly afford to pay off your own mortgage.
You certainly can, right? But that doesn’t mean you’ll qualify for a loan.
That and I can't save up enough for a down payment cause rent/inflation/student loans/car payment. I was a teacher for 6 years and couldn't save a penny. If I wanted to make more money I needed a master's degree which I also couldn't save up to afford.
How is someone supposed to save for a mortgage when they're busy paying off someone else's mortgage?
How is that the landlord's fault?
Well, because as a class they raise the cost of land, meaning that many peoples only option is to rent. And then you have to pay off their mortgage for them.
Note that in the USSR apartments were 5 percent of income. That is what the actual cost of maintaining homes for people is, when you remove all the rent seeking and property speculation.
There is a huge difference between small and large landlords. The example I gave was clearly related to small landlords. If you have two houses and two mortgages and are doing your own maintenance, you aren't driving up the cost of housing significantly. If you are a small landlord, as I've described, the only "profit" you're making goes straight into the payments on that mortgage, most of which is interest for the bank. Also, those "profits" won't be realized for 20+ years. Of course, I'm talking about averages over time. Clearly, housing is unbalanced right now, and bubbles create exceptions.
Large landlords, hedge fund investors, foreign investors, large AirBnB investors... these are a different story. They are the ones on large amounts of property, creating artificial scarcity, jacking up rents to unreasonable levels, etc.
That's why this is such a frustrating conversation, and it's similar to many other hot button issues. It gets treated like a black & white problem and folks start slandering whole groups when the issue usually arises from some sub-set of opportunistic assholes, or extreme bigots/mysoginists/what-have-you. (I my mind I'm also thinking about social issues that pit left-leaning people against right-leaning people, where everyone treats the other side as if each person were an example of the most extreme in that camp.)
So in this thread there are folks talking about overthrowing landlords en masse, when it's the large investors from outside the local community (plus some scumbags in the local community) who are adding to the suffering in the world.
Small landlords of the sort that you described are indeed just making long-term investments that are likely to yield a decent return or become a source of stability as an appreciating asset. It's the kind of investment that we should want lots of people to be able to take advantage of.
We need a more efficient way to get to the heart of the matter in these conversations because just scrolling through the comments it seems like a lot of ignorant or misguided anger.
That's why this is such a frustrating conversation, and it's similar to many other hot button issues. It gets treated like a black & white problem and folks start slandering whole groups when the issue usually arises from some sub-set of opportunistic assholes, or extreme bigots/mysoginists/what-have-you. (I my mind I'm also thinking about social issues that pit left-leaning people against right-leaning people, where everyone treats the other side as if each person were an example of the most extreme in that camp.)
So in this thread there are folks talking about overthrowing landlords en masse, when it's the large investors from outside the local community (plus some scumbags in the local community) who are adding to the suffering in the world.
Small landlords of the sort that you described are indeed just making long-term investments that are likely to yield a decent return or become a source of stability as an appreciating asset. It's the kind of investment that we should want lots of people to be able to take advantage of.
We need a more efficient way to get to the heart of the matter in these conversations because just scrolling through the comments it seems like a lot of ignorant or misguided anger.
Your problem is you are viewing this as some sort of moral argument. I am not claiming landlords are sinners, Im saying that their class existing is harmful and land should not be commodified as it currently is.
Except by its very nature it is extractive. The renter is always getting fucked over in the situation.
I'm not casting blame, I am talking structurally. As a class they do this behavior. Small landlords also contribute to the commodification of housing.
When you find yourself comparing to the USSR I think you've already lost your argument. Since it boils down to "eradicate capitalism and rent becomes cheaper". Maybe it does and everything else becomes a lot shittier too.