this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2023
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I am a little surprised that no one had created a site like this for child pornography.
I am not a legal expert, but my layman's understanding of Ashcroft v Free Speech Coalition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalition is that as long as there is no person being harmed by it CSAM is legal.
Maybe later rulings have changed this. One can hope.
I remember reading that this may be already happening to some extent, eg people sharing tips on creating it on the deep web, maybe through prompt engineer, fine tuning or pretraining.
I don’t know how those models are made, but I do wonder the ones that need retraining/finetuning by using real csam can be classified as breaking the law.
Discord is not the deep web
If a search engine cannot index it then it is the deep web. So yes, Discord chats are technically part of the deep web.
Look up "how to access the deep web" and if you find one website that says install discord, and that post wasnt made in the last hour, ill cashapp you $10
Yeah you could argue that you are correct, but most people dont use it that way.
For example, wikipedia's graphic for the deep web.
Wikipedia on the deep web
Try accessing a Discord channel through your browser without being logged in. They aren't indexed by search engines because you have to be logged in.
So you just ignored my comment and repeated what you said already. Cool.
I just tried accessing a discord channel in a browser withiut being logged in. It asked what name i want and added me to the discord group. No email or signup needed.
I don't care about some arbitrary challenge to get money from you. I'm trying to get you to think critically. If search engines like Google don't index it then it's part of the deep web. Just because things like Discord aren't what people typically mean when people talk about the deep web doesn't make Discord chats not part of the deep web.
And i dont care about arguing semantics with some loser waiting for his turn to talk intsead of discussing something.
things like Discord aren't what people typically mean when people talk about the deep web. Language evolves. Deal with it.
Discord is indexed once you join the group. Google doesnt own the internet and the difinition of the deep web isnt 'what google doesnt touch'
As i said, you dont need an account to join a discord group. It is indexed passed that. Discord is a widely used indexer.
I'm literally discussing with you. You mentioned Wikipedia first but refuse to accept the first sentence of the article on the topic you're talking about.
I literally said this.
Just because something indexes a chat room doesn't make it not part of the deep web. It's specifically about traditional search engines like Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, etc.
You do need an account to log in. Because of that wen crawlers cannot index it. That's what makes it technically part of the deep web. Search engine wen crawlers not being able to index it.
Hentai maybe. But realistic shit is 100% illegal, even just making such an AI would require breaking the law as you'd have to use real CSAM to train it.
CivitAI is a pretty perverted site at the best of times. But there's a disturbing amount of age adjustment plugins to make images of children on the same site they have plugins to make sex acts. It's clear some people definitely are.
Some models also prefer children for some reason and then you have to put mature/adult in positive prompt and child in negative
I think part of the problem is that there is a lot of anime in the models and when you don't filter that out with negative prompts it can distort the proportions of realistic images (e.g. everybody gets huge breasts unless you negative prompt it away). In general models are always heavily biased towards what they were trained on, and when you use a prompt or LORA that worked well on one model on another, you can get weird results. There is always a lot of nudging involved with keywords and weights to get the images to were you want it.
There was an article the other day about underage girls in France having AI nudes spread around based on photos as young as 12. Definitely harm there.
Surely we should know, right? Cartoons or hentai or whatever must have gone through this at some point?
Typically, the laws get amended so that anything that looks like CSAM is now CSAM. Expect porn generators tuned for minor characters to get outlawed very quickly.
Well, to develop such a service, you need training data, i.e. lots of real child pornography in your possession.
Legality for your viewers will also differ massively around the world, so your target audience may not be very big.
And you probably need investors, which likely have less risky projects to invest into.
Well, and then there's also the factor of some humans just not wanting to work on disgusting, legal grey area stuff.
yup, just like the ai needed lots of pictures of astronaughts on horses to make pictures of those...
Exactly. Some of these engines are perfectly capable of combining differing concepts. In your example, it knows basically what a horse looks like, and what a human riding on horseback looks like. It also knows that an astronaut looks very much like a human without a space suit and can put the two together.
Saying nothing of the morality, In this case, I suspect that an AI could be trained using pictures of clothed children perhaps combined with nude images of people who are of age and just are very slim or otherwise have a youthful appearance.
While I think it's repugnent in concept, I also think that for those seeking this material, I'd much rather it be AI generated than an actual exploited child. Realistically though, I doubt that this would actually have any notable impact to the prevalence of CSAM, and might even make it more accessible.
Furthermore, if the generative AI gets good enough, it could make it difficult to determine whether an image is real or AI generated. That would make it more difficult for police to find the child and offender to try to remove them from that situation. So now we need an AI to help analyze and separate the two.
Yeah... I don't like living in 2023 and things are only getting worse. I've put way more thought into this than I ever wanted to.
Aren't AI generated images pretty obvious to detect from noise analysis? I know there's no effective detection for AI generated text, and not that there won't be projects to train AI to generate perfectly realistic images, but it'll be a while before it does fingers right, let alone invisible pixel artifacts.
As a counterpoint, won't the prevalence of AI generated CSAM collapse the organized abuse groups, since they rely on the funding from pedos? If genuine abuse material is swamped out by AI generated imagery, that would effectively collapse an entire dark web market. Not that it would end abuse, but it would at least undercut the financial motive, which is progress.
That's pretty good for 2023.
With StableDiffusion you can intentionally leave an "invisible watermark" that machines can easily detect but humans cannot see. The idea being that in the future you don't accidentally train on already AI generated images. I'd hope most sites are doing that but it can be turned off easily enough. Apart from that I'm not sure.
I could have sworn I saw an article talking about how there were noise artifacts that were fairly obvious, but now I can't turn anything up. The watermark should help things, but outside of that it looks like there's just a training dataset of pure generative AI images (GenImage) to train another AI to detect generated images. I guess we'll see what happens with that.
Unfortunately, no, you just need training data on children in general and training data with legal porn, and these tools can combine it.
It's already being done, which is disgusting but not surprising.
People have worried about this for a long time. I remember a subplot of a sci-fi series that got into this. (I think it was The Lost Fleet, 15 years ago).
You'd also have to convince them that it's not real. It'll probably end up creating laws tbh. Then there are weird things like Japan where lolis are legal, but uncensored genitals aren't, even drawn.
I'm sure they're out there on the deep web.