this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2023
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Comradeship // Freechat

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Just... why?
Where are the lwft-wing pagans at? (Are there some lurking on the grad?)

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[–] Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml 30 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Time to bang my old drum again.

Marxism-Leninism is specifically based on dialectic materialism. A philosophy that very clearly postulates the material basis of the mind and everything to do with it. People often harp on USSR's anti-church policies, but frankly they didn't go far enough. You either believe in fairies, or you utilise the scientific method and recognise the materialist basis of reality, history, culture and human "spirit"

[–] MeowZedong@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Although I agree with you about eschewing religious faith on a personal level, the reality is that a large part of the global population clings strongly to some type of theology. Going so far as to outlaw religious practice or dismantle religious institutions has historically led to the alienation of people who value religious beliefs. Plenty of people have managed to live with faith and act as positive members of our communities. The problems arise when power incentives exist for their leaders.

How religious institutions and their leaders act within and influence our systems is the main source of the problems with religion, not religious faith. Rather than trying to suppress religious practice, a better approach would be to effectively strip these institutions of their power while giving them the means to continue operating solely for religious practice and as community hubs, which is one of their main practical benefits to society.

Should they be collecting tithes, enriching religious leaders, or participating at any level as political institutions outside of combatting real persecution? No. I definitely agree with banning this. But if you give them the means to maintain their places of worship and otherwise eliminate any profit incentives, I expect these institutions as we know them would "wither away" and naturally continue acting as smaller corners of the community that will become more focused on making a positive impact and providing mutual aid.

I'm curious about your thoughts on this? I used to hold similar beliefs to what you wrote here, but I have shifted away from my anti-religious views as I've learned more ML theory. It's not that I've gained faith or anything, but moreso that I think the problems I see with religion mainly stem from the influences of the institutions operating within feudalism and capitalism.

[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I think stricter requirements should be placed on party members than on the general population. Party members must have a dialectical materialist world outlook, so they should not openly associate with any religion. I also think the socialist state should promote a scientific education that helps the next generation not become mired in the same superstitions as the previous. But in general only those forms of religious activity which are socially harmful or a hindrance to socialist construction should be actively suppressed by the state. Everything else can be left alone. Religious institutions should of course be subordinated to the dictatorship of the proletariat so that they cannot establish themselves in certain communities as alternative governments with their own laws, taxation, etc.

[–] Soul_Greatsword@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Agreed. As socialists we often struggle to educate other members of the working class on how a change in their political outlook would benefit them. Trying to change their cultural, religious, or philosophical views is not only arrogant but has also often been historically been disastrous.

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