this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
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Programming

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[–] Yearly1845@reddthat.com 32 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Tabs are better than spaces

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Tabs are literally designed for aligned indentation, and they're configurable for clientside viewing. There is no excuse for spaces. I don't care if your goddang function arguments line up once they spill out onto another line. You've got deeper problems.

[–] xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Tabs are designed for tabulation (hence the name), not indentation. The side effect is that a tab's length changes based on its position in a line, which is terrible for programming. If you use tabs in the Python REPL, it looks like this:

>>> def frobnicate_all(arr):
>>>     for item in arr:
>>>             frobnicate(item)
[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A newline is the separator between lines, so the concept of length doesn't make sense for it.

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Correct.

And a tab is the separator between stops.

[–] xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Indeed. It's a separator, so using it for indentation doesn't make sense.

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Stops are indentation.

They're what you indent... to.

Tab goes to the next stop, the same way newline goes to the next line. Exactly the same way. If you write more text before the next line, the amount of whitespace shrinks. That doesn't mean the "length" of a newline changes. It always goes one line.

A tab always goes one stop.

[–] spartanatreyu@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

a tab’s length changes based on its position in a line

What does this even mean? A tab is a tab.

Tab's don't have multiple lengths inside a file, they all have the same length.

That's the point of tabs.

[–] xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The horizontal tabulation character moves the cursor to the next column which is a multiple of the tabulation length. See the examples here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_key

At least for me, it renders like this:

Screenshot of a part of the linked Wikipedia page

Clearly the whitespace produced by each tab character has a different length.

[–] spartanatreyu@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

The horizontal tabulation character moves the cursor to the next column which is a multiple of the tabulation length. See the examples here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_key

Yes

Clearly the whitespace produced by each tab character has a different length.

No, each tab has the same size, the text rendered over the top of the tabs are not the same size.

Always remember the golden rule: Tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment.

[–] Ajen@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

Tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment

[–] FreakingSpy@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

I work in a massive project where they used both. Often in the same functions. Sometimes mixing 2 and 4 spaces aswell.

[–] drathvedro@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The real hot take: Spaces are better than tabs. Fight me

[–] OnichiCub@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago

Spaces ARE better than tabs.

[–] xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Tabs could be a good idea if their default size in most environments (and often not configurable) wasn't 8, which is terribly big.

[–] spartanatreyu@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

most environments

What environment are you using that have tabs set to 8?

[–] xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
  • Many terminal emulators (may or may not be configurable), including Termux for Android (not configurable)
  • GitHub (by default)
  • SourceHut (not configurable)
  • Vim/Neovim (by default)
  • HTML (by default, I think)

Honestly, I can't think of an environment that doesn't have 8-space tabs by default.

[–] spartanatreyu@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

Interesting...

Every IDE and editor (gui and tui) I've used has always come preconfigured with a tab-size of 4.

The only thing I've ever experienced having a tab-size of 8 was github, and I thought that was just a problem with a setting from github's size that I quickly set back to 4.

It seems that tui editors come with tab-sizes of 8 only when a config isn't provided, and every environment I've used where I've used a tui editor has always come with sensible configs (for things like config location, language recognition for syntax highlighting, etc...) including a tab-size of 4.