this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
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that sub often tended towards outright anti-leftism
Anticommunism and fascism are the best of friends.
That's the unfortunate thing.
Start criticizing the Soviet union and you'll end up with a bunch of people left bashing in general.
"tankies" criticize the Soviet union, you know? They also criticize the ebil See See Pee but apparently there's no room for nuance
What's your definition of "tankie"? If you're willing to call out Putin's homophobic journalist murdering authoritarian bullshit and the Chinese government's massacring of protesters and genociding of ethnic minorities you're not a tankie imo, you're just a communist.
The US isn't nearly as far away from any of that as liberals like to believe.
Why is the litmus test for Tankie-ism picking sides in a civil war on the other side of the globe, while governors and senators from my home state seem giddy about imposing Putin's policies in my backyard?
You're pro-Putin if you don't scream Slava Ukraine loud enough. You're pro-CCP if you don't cheer for American destroyers every time they sail the straight of Taiwan. You're pro-Taliban if you're relieved to see a 21 year long brutal occupation come to an end.
Westerners slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis for decades on end, and it was fine because we labeled them all terrorists.
We wrote country music songs celebrating the fact. We played those songs at the fucking Super Bowl while millions cheered.
But when a leftist says "Stop doing these wars! The wars are bad!" the blood drenched finger of the liberal finally finds a place to point and condemn genocide denial.
Incredible.
No, it wasn't fine, that's kinda the point.. It isn't fine when the west does it, it's not fine when others do it too..
It's pretty typical tankie behavior that we're seeing.
When you say it's bad that Stalin implemented genocidal policies such as against the Krim Tartars, Kalmykks and other ethnic groups, they come back with wHaT aBoUt aMeRiCa.
They know that both things can be bad, but they have similar incentives to right-fascists. That is to say they're liars.
Yeah I don't care if they want to call it genocide or not, I honestly don't.. And I don't care for calling them fascists either, it's just childish drama stuff to me.. Just don't twist other people's words and pretend that a certain country or person is perfect..
Hey, that's kinda fucked, since genocide is one of the worst things that can happen and should be condemned in the strongest possible terms.
Nothing Childish about condemning genocidal states like China.
Right but can we maybe not getting hung up on specific words and definitions? I really don't want endless fights over what to label stuff, I would rather see discussions about whether or not China should be doing what they do..
It's a lot easier to dismiss and deflect a hard to define and relatively flexible word such as genocide, but it's a lot harder to actually defend China's actions..
Notice how amnesty international never mentiond the word "genocide"? Instead, they stick to what they can prove without a doubt: Chinas mass internment, mass survilance, etc.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/06/china-draconian-repression-of-muslims-in-xinjiang-amounts-to-crimes-against-humanity/
Don't get me wrong, Chinas actions are horrible. The label genocide is probably fair. But I hate when appologists are able to dodge an uncomfortable discussion because the discussion gets stuck at arguing whether we should call it "crimes against humanity", "systemic repression of a people" or "genocide"..
When you clap like a seal because the latest round of corporate flacks insist AES states are full of baby eating monsters, you end up endorsing the Kosovo War, the Iraq War, the Vietnam War, and the Korean War all over again.
"China killed all the Uighurs" is just this generation's "Saddam murdered babies in their incubators" and "Those Nicaraguan nuns had it coming" of the 21st century.
well some people who are called "tankies" do. some of them are just rabid bhreznevites
What year do you think it is?
2023, where the maoist New People's Army is a stronghold for human rights & dignity for the Filipino people, engaged in open war against the truly authoritarian & cruel, Imperialist backed Phillipine Republic
They even conduct gay marriages, so liberals have to support them. Sorry, I don't make the rules.
It's hilarious how people just can't comprehend this statement
I'm confused on your point.
Left-bashing tends to signal a green light for more left-bashing.
what with all the anti-communist fascists and all
But there is a clear difference between actual anarchists, who read theory and put it into practice and actually do something to further the cause, and chronically online 'anarchists' who only whine about tankies.
Sure. There are plenty of people who are anarchists, who are people I would not work with. Like armchair anarchists.
And the word "tankie" does get used by armchair anarchists A lot often inappropriatly.
But still tankie is a valid crique of Red fascism.
And if you are a person who believes In communism, and can see it's benefits but are unable to see it's faults your probably a tankie.
Please remember on multiple instances The Soviets turned their back on anarchists. Like in the Spanish civil war.
Have we been reading the same thread? The anticommunists here don't care about your nuance or your support for AES states other than the USSR, they will call you a tankie if you speak in defense of any of those other projects.
Incidentally I don't think the Spanish Civil War proves that the USSR was "fascist", even if the USSR's actions are worthy of criticism.
USSR refused to openly support Spanish anarchist during the Spanish civil war.
While they did help fund the Spanish republicans and sell the some arms during the war. They would not come out openly to support the left wing government.
They basically allowed the fascist nationalist Franco, supported by fascist German mercenaries, to overthrow a legally elected left wing government. Simply because the soviets knew they would benefit from not intervening in the conflict in the long run.
This is the main critique of communism from an anarchist prospective:
State communism will generally side with fascists because they have similar structure. they are both hierarchical. And will trend in the same direction. The same can be said for capitalism.
Power will always trend into the hands of the people who operate the organization and in heirarchical systems, power will always trend up to fewer and fewer people.
Well I am not one of those people. And I'm not willing or able to defend their bs.
I call people tankies when they support communism without being able to critize it's faults.
Do you deny that there is a long history of Communists not supporting anarchists in their time of need?
To tankies fascist means opposing whatever flavor of authoritarian "communism" they prefer regardless of the reasons or context. This conveniently allows any number of pogroms, mass slaughters or engineered famines to be reframed as anti-fascist action, rather than a brutal expression of state power at the expense of the working class.
Then what would you have me call people who make excuses for invasion, oppression, and genocide just because it was committed by the Russian or Chinese government instead of a western one?
I really hate how ya'll deliberately conflate tankies and all socialism/communism, and then conflate anyone being opposed to those concepts as inherently being a fascist.
well is there any actually existing socialist country that you would support?
is there any actually existing socialist country that is actually socialist?
yes, cuba is pretty uncontroversialy a socialist country
The Cuban working class does not self-administer the economy. Although Cuba is as close so a success as Marxism can get, Fidel's policies of homophobic persecution - regardless of the fact that he regretted them - is proof positive of why authoritarian policies go wrong. Why no single person should have that level of power.
Because in spite of Castro's evident good intentions, and the otherwise high level of success that Cuba has achieved, those atrocities still happened. And because of Authoritarian policies, no-one within Cuba could opposite it while it went on without facing persecution.
"Tankie" is just the liberal version of "Woke".
Tankies use "Liberal" just as the right does. Funny, that.
um, what's a tankie?
Spreading nazi shit like double genocide theory = fascist in my book, no further investigation needed!
i’d never have seen it coming! /s
Fascism? In MY "anti-tankie" subreddit? It's more likely than you'd guess!
Nah, I joined their Discord for a bit and everyone there was a leftist.