this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
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[–] Filthmontane@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Capitalism is not "when you have markets." I totally agree that it's important to have well regulated markets. But capitalism perverts democracy with bribery and lobbying. Democratic Socialism is when you have a democratic government and a democratic economy.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Democratic socialism and capitalism can coexist. As long as the former significantly neuters the latter. Capitalism is (supposed to be) an economic organization, not a political one. It's just captured the government in the US and other places.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's just captured the government in the US and other places.

That is a core function of capitalism, not some crazy coincidence. There are market economy models separate from capitalism.

[–] CoLa666@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Could you point me to the economy models you are refering to?

I think the biggest mistake of the social market economy practised in Germany, was overlooking or disregarding the fact, that policy and policymakers are themselves part of market forces by lobbying, corruption and bribery. This leads to creeping reduction in social standards and development of the economy towards are radical free-market economy, which in turn inevitably leads to feudalism and fascism eventually, as demonstraded live in the US currently.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Market Socialism (like worker co-ops)is my personal preference:

Private companies still exist, but instead of being beneficially owned by separate investors, they are collectively owned by the workers themselves. Think privately-traded corporations where all shares are held exclusively by employees. Profits can be reinvested in the company, spun-off into other ventures, or distributed between the workers themselves.

This retains the competitive benefits of markets, while cutting out the non-working investor class. Fewer billionaires, stronger middle class.

[–] WolfhoundRO@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

And, instead of dictatorial decisions coming from CEOs and separate investors, the decisions would be debated and decided by vote in the workers' board. An actual workplace democracy

[–] masquenox@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago

There's only one kind of democratic economy and we already have a word for it - it's socialism. If the means of production isn't owned by the workers it's not democratic. It's not socialist.

[–] Shunned_Marble4378@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

although how do you want to achieve a democratic economy? voting? 🤣 corrupt politics and capitalism are symbiotic. how do you plan on getting rid of just one of them.

[–] uis@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

And when democratic government turns into direct democracy socialism turns into communism