this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
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Linux
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
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I've been using Linux for decades and my response to that is 'wut?'
It really isn't. What do you struggle with? I might be able to point you in the right direction.
Disagree, Linux in 2023 is perfectly usable outside of DRM for games and proprietary crapware (e.g. Adobe, certain CAD software)
Well… 1. FL Studio is proprietary but they’re super respectful of the community.
They have been improving FL for longer than I lived know. (I’m 16yo)
But! It still doesn’t work on linux lol — it’s cool with Wine, some freeze here and there, but when you use VSTs which are kinda essential to make music, it just sometimes crashes.
It had the good aspect of pushing me to sample more, so I discovered a new way to make music ;) !
Linux is perfectly usable for going on Internet, browsing shit, incredible for programming, and very good for playing games. Okay… but, I need to create, not just consume!
I’m on Arch Linux, I got no problems, it’s very fun since I switched two years ago when I got my laptop but for something, Linux is so bad. I wish I could fix that? But I can’t do it alone :)
You think that programming isn't creative? :P
How? Serious question, what are your pain points?
Stop using proprietary software that you can't fix (or get someone to fix). :P
Try using a virtual machine if you really need to run windows, but...
The ideal solution would be to work out how to replace it in your workflow, even if that means you need to learn to code and build your own tool.
If there's a community that's already out there working on similar open source software I'm sure that they would welcome new contributors with open arms; they can't do it alone either.
Maybe you don't know the language or can't code, but you can still help out with documentation, triaging bugs, etc. Learning to submit useful bug reports and reproduce bugs from other users can help developers spend their time fixing bugs not working out what's going on.
bruh - it's better to admit Linux Open Source is janky for audio production and that its commercial offerings (bitwig, reaper, renoize et al), while awesome, are incomplete because the plugin world isn't there.
There are some things where a Mac or Windows is just a better choice, and 100% a DAW is that place.
PLEASE NOTE: Linux is 100% the right OS for homebrew devices c/o RasberryPi. There are audio focused distros that do have some nice features but they are a different kind of journey.
Telling someone "go code" is totally unrealistic. The OP's goal is to make music.
I'm not suggesting that someone switch over to them immediately, but accepting the status quo is a great way to ensure that it will never change. There's no inherent reason that this software can't run on Linux; as you've pointed out it's that nobody has cared enough to do the porting.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
If you want better audio production on Linux put in some work. I provided a ton of non-coding ways that someone can contribute to those products.
I'm pragmatic enough that I suggested the use of a Windows VM.
I do think programming is creative, I just didn’t talk precisely about it because it wasn’t the focus of the conversation :).
Linux is very bad for music creation, the ecosystem is lacking the incredible tools like Ableton or FL studio, and the VSTs. You can’t shit done on Linux in this area right now, well I’ve made some music but what a pain it was.
I won’t stop using proprietary software just for the sake of using Linux. I need and I like FL Studio, it’s a very good DAW. Stop trying to convert everyone to your open-source utopia, it can’t exist! I love open-source, I’m an open-source contributor on a few projects and most of my projects (the good ones) are open-source too! But, try to make music with open-source tools and we can talk about it.
Some of them are good but not as good as an Omnisphere, a Serum, or a Purity, or a Ozone RX 9 for mixing.
And no, I won’t involve myself into an open-source DAW because I’ve literally got other shit to do right now than filling issues or PRs that no one will read on GitHub.
The way you talk about things is not helpful, it is just the same copy-pasted shit every time. Open-source… bugs… developers… community… proprietary software bad…
Stop acting like a malfunctioning cyborg.
so on the real
There should be an a audio focused distro. I think one way to solve this problem - it's been am minute - is to host VSTs on a network node and access them over the network.
This takes a bit of doing and dedication but that is one approach.
It's pretty exotic and not your use case...but for some it works well.
That's a great interim workaround. Do you know if it's been documented anywhere?
Check out VST virtual racks -- audiogridder is one, there are others. I would assume any low-latency audio distr worth it's salt would have it prewired...no idea what actual latency would be like, and how well it works.
Muse receptor was a linux based "VST in a hw rack" soln for a hot minute ... it was linux (maybe suse???) + wine + tweaks. the idea there was why run vsts on your computer, run them in a receptor and process the audio like hw synth...controlling the receptor via midi??? They can be found for cheap as chips today.
This was a bigger thing back when 8 cores came from dual quad cores...not as big a deal today, when 8 core / 16 thread CPU laptops are consumer level devices.
All of this is probably not very great workflow for someone looking for an integrated solution. Some people are into the journey, and that's cool. Others just want to make music, and that's cool too.
Audiogridder is a recent example, remote vst kinda/sorta local. Have no idea about sample latency or how well it works from Linux pov.
There are other remote vst hosts/“virtual rack” as well as pro audio Linux distros that are focused on lower latency than windows.
It’s worth noting that … for a while?
There were rackable VST hosts running Linux & wine, the muse receptor.
The kinda fell by the wayside as large core count chips made them extra but for a moment they were a thing.
It was a cool concept, strap virtual instruments and treat it them as a hw unit. But that’s before 8 core / 16 thread consumer laptops became a thing, back when 8 cores were dual quad core chips…
So what you're saying is that it's possible but that the tools aren't great right now?
It sounds like you're in a position to make some headway on that.
So they're not all 'very bad' then?
Why do you assume that issues or PRs won't be read and actioned? That's not my experience working with open source?
Bullshit (and beside the point).
Make me.
Edit: I did ask for actual pain points and you didn't respond to that.
Edit2: a quick update from IRC
neutroniak: lmms supports VSTstbh i wish it weren't my opinion too. but since the occasion presented itself, op is struggling with setting up a software for his needs on linux: i wish there were viable options for his case.
maybe i am simple minded, but why do i have to install gparted just so i could partition my disk (in windows disk partition is a given), or have to install fuse so i could run .appimage files; why don't these functions come preinstalled ? maybe i am now starting to understand why is linux invunerable to viruses: u kinda have to sudo ur way through everything so u could u achieve ur need. maybe i am venting, but as a newcomer from windows, its kinda overwhelming haha: wanna copy to a readonly directroy: sudo cp; edit a readonly file: sudo gedit..even the terminal isnt in favourites, i have to ctrl alt T so i could find it 😭😭 again, i am no dev, and i kinda have a day to spend and work to get to xd
You don't. The tools to do this without the gui are likely included in your distribution as a base. Try
gdiskorfdiskorparted.Fuse (Filesystem in Userspace) is a dependency of appimage. https://github.com/AppImage/AppImageKit/wiki/FUSE
That's up to your distribution, but typically the answer is 'users can install it through the package manager if and when they need it'.
Ask them - raise a bug (after checking that there's no others that exist) and see if there's a good reason for it!
Yes, strict separation of user privileges has historically been a reason why Unix-like OSes are harder to compromise, but it's not a silver bullet.
Windows, for example, still had everyone using an Administrator account for day-to-day stuff until Vista / 7.
I'd suggest changing your approach; expecting things to adhere to patterns that you're familiar with from Windows is not likely to make your life easier.
If you're comfortable with the terminal, get used to basic commands like
cat,grep,find, etc - the command line tools are often more available (and more powerful) than their hypothetical GUI counterpart!i could barely do it in gui, let alone in cui. i need colors to know what i am doing (consider me ur average joe!, and i kinda am)
please do, i really like to be recommended a distro which comes with many common tools installed. package manager (if u mean by that snap and the like ?) is buggy as hell, i would rather use terminal than deal with that
i miss those days, now can't do nothing with my win 7 :(
yea i guess i ll have to: already bookmarked a common sysadmin commands guide, and probably would have to learn more in the process. again as u mentionned, as much as it is tiresome, i start to think the reason why things are the way they are in linux. also i like the harmony between my android and linux apps when syncing: it feels like being in a macos/ios environement on a budget, but with also the advantage of being able to upgrade hardware, and very wide array of apps to choose from, and the open source community willing to offer help.complaining apart, i will dedicate time and effort to learn linux and make the best of it.
also, seeing that ur an admin of an instance, i really wanted to self host..myself too, since i was on linux, but i am kinda following docker guides blindly and didnt get much far with my endeavour so i had to bail for now
I mean tools like
apt,yum,dnf,emerge, andpacman, the things you use to install additional software packages onto your system.It sounds like you're on the right track. There are differences in how you need to think about Linux administration, but once you get your head around that and some shell familiarity you should be set.
I can offer some assistance on the docker part; look me up on IRC if interested - irc.libera.chat #gentoo-chat (Aussie time though)
i didnt use irc before but i hav a matrix account. nonetheless i ll look up how to reach u through this. and thank you for being easy on me for my linux takes: if linux is to be mass adopted, new comers need to be handled this way, and not to be shamed for their lack of knowledge.
You don't need to install gparted, it's just nicer. But Ubuntu already has something for partitioning. Open start menu, search for "Disks", that's it.
Just be careful what partitions you remove/format, but I guess that's obvious.
i am learning the hard way :/