this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
65 points (88.2% liked)
Linux
48329 readers
1483 users here now
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
Rules
- Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
- No misinformation
- No NSFW content
- No hate speech, bigotry, etc
Related Communities
Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
They’re spot on. I had this thought last week while trying to find an ISO. It’s like it’s a state secret or something. 😆
Fedora, OpenSuse, Arch, Gentoo, Kali, and Armbian all make it easy to find an ISO or image to get started. The free RHEL downloads are the only thing more hidden then Debian downloads.
There's a big fat "download" button right in the front page of debian.org that takes you right to the network install ISO. That's all you need.
And a working network connection. That’s not crap.
That’s ALL you need. 😆
You gotta download it either way, netinstall or not. At least that way you can pick and choose what you actually need. Are you trying to set up a computer in the woods?
Sometimes, yeah. There are a lot shit networks out there.
With the full, I can at least get a functioning base system without needing a network connection. With the net, network no worky, no Debian.
Yeah, but there is a point. I'm not a Linux newbie, but sometimes you can get lost looking for the iso file that includes firmware, or non-free, or certain desktop. On most distro's pages, the big fat button leads to a direct link to the iso file and another to a torrent at most.
While I do agree that the website is bad, nowadays the main iso includes non-free firmware, and it's the same installer for all DEs.
Well that's nice, I think last Debian I downloaded what buster or something so I might have been talking about old experiences. They're still making the user navigate through an FTP-like file structure to find the current amd64 iso?
As an experiment you could go to debian.org and see if you find the download link.
I gave it another shot having not attempted for a few years, I was looking for the most complete, stable, non-free, offline, x64 image for a USB flash drive. I failed very quickly because I didn't know whether I needed a CD or DVD image. A few minutes of clicking through random and irrelevant "FAQs" and I finally found an answer I understood but only through experience, CD images are smaller than 700mb and my flash drive is large, so I wanted a DVD image. Back to the top, and I found the image I needed.
So it took a few minutes, and I've done this several times before. A new user would have absolutely no clue.
You're describing that you want something that isn't the standard installer, with the ability to do offline installs. A new user with no clue about anything would probably just use the top link and run the graphic installer, ending up with the same system as if he/she had downloaded the dvd version. Is your criticism that internet is a requirement for the standard installer?
Yeah, I mean the website design sucks for sure, but it's literally right there. I'm not sure what else people need.
Apparently by "people" you are referring to experienced technical users like yourself. Everyone else will need to learn what an ISO is, which one is needed, and how exactly to transform that file into a bootable USB stick. This means intense hand-holding from beginning to end. Which is possible, because other distros manage it. Debian does not.
If a user is that far down the technical literacy ladder, they do not need Debian, they need Ubuntu or Mint or one of a dozen other distros that prioritize UX over production.
Then the website should redirect them there instead of using poor UX as an excuse