this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 18 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Bad is the enemy of good, and right-winners are bad.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Biden doubled Trump's deportation numbers and gave record breaking funding to corrupt police departments all over the country, also striped one of the largest unions in the country of its right to strike, something Republicans haven't managed to do since the Traffic Controller firings in the 80s

Yeah keep telling me about the "bad guys" wonder-who-thats-for

https://mronline.org/2022/01/21/the-700000-club/

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/20/biden-haiti-deportations-texas-del-rio/

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-17/biden-administration-appeals-judge-order-to-stop-expelling-migrants-under-public-health-law

So easy to find these sources, but as you can see below me, libs don't know how to read basic statistics

[–] abraxas@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Biden doubled Trump’s deportation numbers

2021 was the lowest deportation year on record (owing to COVID). 2022 was the second lowest deportation year in modern record.

Biden moved to prioritize ICE focusing on criminal immigrants, and the Texas Republicans blocked that behavior in the courts, a block that only failed in June of 2023 when SCOTUS gave the only reasonable result (a phrase I can't say very often anymore).

So 2 years of record low deportations and 1 year of his hands tied in the courts (of which I can't find numbers anyway). How exactly is he "doubling" Trump's deportation numbers?

What you MIGHT have misunderstood is that the number of border crossings have gone up dramatically under Biden, likely because he's against the draconian and horrific policies of his predecessor. More border crossings than ever. Fewer deportations than ever. Whatever your opinion is of that, your claim was wrong.

And I'm pretty sure it would be turn into a shitfest if I tried to discuss the rest of the issues because I know you see them with Marx colored glasses. But you're making some factually incorrect statements and it can't be more clear than the deportation numbers. And more refs.

https://www.axios.com/2022/03/11/ice-arrest-deportation-number-biden-immigration

https://www.cato.org/blog/biden-administration-has-reduced-deportations-more-trump-administration-not-much-0 (I love the "not by much" when they show a graph depicting an 80% drop! I love propaganda mags)

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Try again, you’re simply counting arrests and deportations, I'm talking about Title 42 which was also Trump's primary deportation method

“Given the grave harm that the Title 42 policy inflicts on desperate, asylum-seeking families, and the public health community’s view that the policy is not necessary, we would have hoped the administration would simply accept the ruling, especially given its repeated claim that it wants to distance itself from the Trump administration’s asylum practices,” said Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s immigrant rights project.

Customs and Border Protection said 25% of the 209,000 people it encountered in August had been stopped at least once over the previous year, compared with 14% in earlier years.

Hmmm funny how numbers change when you account for all avenues of abuse

What you MIGHT have misunderstood is that the number of border crossings have gone up dramatically under Biden, likely because he's against the draconian and horrific policies of his predecessor. More border crossings than ever. Fewer deportations than ever. Whatever your opinion is of that, your claim was wrong.

Nope incorrect

The “expedited removal” process is one where asylum seekers are quickly denied entry based on a brief interview process with Border Patrol officers who have the final say on whether a migrant has a “credible fear” of returning to their countries of origin. With “expedited removal,” migrants are deported without a hearing or appearance before a judge–in effect, without due process.

During his four-year term, Trump used Title 42 to remove 500,000 asylum seekers. In under a year, Biden has deported almost 700,000 migrants.

That was a year and half ago, and before the Biden admin intensified the deportations of Haitians especially

the weekend show U.S. Border Patrol agents on horseback violently grabbing Haitian migrants attempting to join the Del Rio encampment. This, the Biden administration claims, is in the name of safety: The mass deportations have been authorized under the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Title 42, which enables expedited deportations in the name of public health during the Covid-19 pandemic. Under Trump, nearly half a million people were removed under the law; the Biden administration has already used it to deport nearly 700,000.

Its use against migrants at the southern border sends a clear and vile message as to whom the U.S. deems to be the public, deserving of health and safety. Under Title 42 — in the name of safety, that is — those being rounded up and flown to Haiti were given no option to apply for asylum or temporary protection status.

It is worth emphasizing, too, that the majority of deportees have not lived in Haiti for many years, having left to find work in South America after a catastrophic hurricane devastated their home country in 2010. Struggling to find enough work to survive in South America, thousands risked perilous journeys to the U.S. border, only to be summarily removed — to Haiti.

Next time before you put on the lib tinted glasses, don't just look for sources that only count ONE method of deportation and immigrant abuse, count them all, also you used Cato.org, straight up a right wing source lmao

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Also because the Biden admin could no longer sustain the use of Title 42 because of the lifting of the final covid restrictions, they now are reviving an older and even worse Trump policy for the border

The Biden administration is now turning away anyone seeking asylum who didn’t first seek protection in a country they traveled through, or first applied online. This is a version of a Trump administration policy that was overturned by the courts. Advocacy groups sued to block the new rule minutes before it took effect.

The lawsuit, filed in federal court in San Francisco by the Center for Gender & Refugee Studies and other groups, alleges the Biden administration “doubled down” on the policy proposed by Trump that the same court rejected. The Biden administration has said its new rule is substantially different.

And predictably, deportations have ramped up since Title 42 lifted back in May

According to the Department of Homeland Security, about 85,000 migrants have been “repatriated” since Title 42 was lifted. That’s up 65% since the same period last year, which saw 51,246. During the same period the previous year, there were 33,087 repatriations, according to it.

That's just three months

[–] autismdragon@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago (10 children)

And I'm pretty sure it would be turn into a shitfest if I tried to discuss the rest of the issues because I know you see them with Marx colored glasses.

Honestly this bit makes me extremally curious what your response to the other two issues are. Do you think they're both good things? I just want to know what I'm dealing with here.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago (15 children)

He didn't even know about Title 42 and its use by the biden admin to deport twice as many people as Trump, I doubt he has informed opinions on police funding and strike breaking lmao

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[–] krolden@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If you always vote for the lesser of two evils, you end up with the worst evil imaginable.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But we only ever have 2 evils. There is no "other" to choose. The old folks make sure of that during primaries, they vote and they choose people who look like them and are their age, so we always end up with the 2 worst choices.

[–] krolden@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

yeah, thats been going great so far

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The right loves anti-electoralism on the left, it means that they have less of a fight from the left.

Can you imagine how bad things would be if people didn't vote if they felt like they were picking between the lesser of 2 evils?

This nation would look a whole hell of a lot like modern Florida with it's politics because Republicans in general turn out way more often than anyone else to vote.

[–] krolden@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Then why have things been getting so much worse over the past 50 years even with plenty of blue boys and gals getting put in office?

[–] AnarchoYeasty@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Because Republicans? We've not had plenty of blues elected. We've seen abysmal showings from the left and republicans being elected across the nation who are setting out to destroy people's rights.

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

What about the good that has happened?

Do you think gay marriage would have been protected?

Access to birth control secured?

Anti-sodomy laws getting struck down?

The Affordable Care Act passing?

Disability rights?

Do you think any of those things would have happened if Republicans been able to seize power and hold it unopposed over the last 50 years? No. None of those things would have happened. Those things happened because people further left than them got elected, the lesser of 2 evils won some elections.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of better.

[–] GreenTeaRedFlag@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

disability rights were fought for by disabled people, not fucking democrats. Gay people rioted to get their rights.

and do you actually think contraceptives are secured?

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you think any of those things would have passed in a country where people didn't vote?

And all those rights secured by supreme court rulings are sitting on shaky ground, why? Republicans stacking the courts.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They're sitting on shaky ground because Obama refused to seat a justice, RBG refused to retire when she could have been replaced, and because Biden et all refuse to stack the courts.

: |

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago

Obama didn't refuse to seat a justice, he was blocked by Mitch McConnell. Who also blocked every single judge appointment that Obama should have been able to make in the last 2 years of his presidency. And Republicans were talking about leaving that seat open until a Republican won the presidency. This is why trump has the most judicial appointments of any president.

And RBG reduced to retire likely out of pride during the Obama years, but smartly didn't retire during the trump years.

Biden refusing to stack the courts is pretty shitty, but if he does so it's going to open the flood gates for that being a possibility. Do I think he should? Yes. But I also think that if he does so their should be a cap put in place, but to put a cap in place would require a constitutional amendment, and there's no way that will get through our current Senate.

[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago

It would have been on a state-by-state basis, which is what we're coming dangerously close to anyway.

We don't go around campaigning specifically to discourage people from voting. Our project is to get people to see beyond the seesaw spectacle.

When someone offers you two poor options, the right thing to do is to create a better option, even if you take the less bad option in the short run. Voting a Democrat into office and then congratulating ourselves on doing it is how progress slips and how we lose sight of what's needed.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

Gay marriage isn't protected. Scotus can shoot it down on a whim

Lol Biden lost Roe

Court decision

Sucks

What rights? SSI tops out at 700$ a month, I can never have more than 2k in assets, and if I get married I lose it all. Just happened to a friend of mine, they're going to have to annul their marriage so they don't starve to death. "disability rights".

[–] Lightor@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Ummm because nuance is a thing that exists. Global conditions, etc. I mean the guy in power during the pandemic saying we should inject bleach or nuke incoming hurricanes sure as shit helped things be worse.

[–] SmokinStalin@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The crux of the issue is, where you see a democracy that is keeping fascism at bay, we see through the illusion of choice that keeps allowing the slow steady march towards fascism.

It's a ratchet. Gop moves everything rightward (including the Dems) and the Dems refuse to push left in the name of "bipartisanship". Then conditions get worse (because the policy is further right than before), Dems eventually lose because they allow gridlock and the ratchet suddenly frees up and cranks to the right again.

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

And how much worse would it be right now if Dems never won elections due to people saying "this dem isn't far enough left therefore I won't vote"?

How far right would things have flown?

Voting for the lesser of 2 evils reduces harm now. And when the lesser of 2 evils isn't pushed that things are allowed to shift further to shit.

[–] SmokinStalin@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago

Let me be more blunt. We do not live in a democracy. Voting is fundamentallly unable to change that.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

idk man there's a literal genocide going on right now I think we're past the point of quibbling over minor differences in the deree of evil.

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago

A genocide being perpetrated by Republicans.

Who can forget these 16 states (blue states) introducing trans refugee bills. Does that look like something republicans would do?

The parties are not the same, there are differences between them.

[–] iie@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Study: Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens:

From the abstract:

Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.

further down:

In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule — at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.

What is it, like, 70% of Americans want single payer healthcare?

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

No the right actually hates that. Democrats have been shrieking at us to vote for years even though the entire left in the US is a tiny fraction of the registered electorate. But the right wing won't stop screaming at us about it.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

I swear to god the next time tells me that BS I am going to shit myself, vomit, and cry.

There is a literal anti-Trans genocide in the US. That's "The good" you're defending.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

Democrats are right wingers. And they're worlds away from anything I'd call "good"

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