this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2023
650 points (98.8% liked)

News

23371 readers
4927 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I feel a bit conflicted on this. On the one hand, charging for heated seats that are already there and which is a purely hardware feature is bullshit.

Other things like Full Self Driving aren’t as black and white. Sure, the sensors are there but those are relatively cheap. A massive part of FSD is the software, and developing this kind of software is extremely expensive.

Should everyone get a copy of Windows and Office for free because it’s ‘just some bits’ and the hardware is already there?

[–] Neato@kbin.social 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Calling it Full Self Driving is fraud, anyways.

I don't think licenses and/or subscriptions should be allowable on cars. Selling the car means it might not transfer and there's little way to ensure it has the software you need.

[–] induna_crewneck@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

There have been subscriptions for navigational systems for a long time. It makes sense to me that software that needs constant updates or has stuff run server-side would be licensed. Unlocking hardware features not so much. I don't see heated seats getting a lot of updates.

[–] elbarto777@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The windows analogy is almost there.

It's more like, you pay for windows home edition, which would take up 24gb in your 128gb hard drive. But nope, it's actually taking up 89gb. Why? Because it has all the features of Windows Ultimate edition, all locked away, taking up precious space in a hard drive that you've paid for.

[–] brockpriv@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Most softwares work this way. You download the full thing. Your subscription level dictate what feature you can use.

[–] elbarto777@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Maybe today. That was not always the case. Especially software that attempts ti thwart piracy.

E.g. music packages.

[–] BorgDrone@lemmy.one -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So you're worried about the hard disk space in your car ? Can you even access that as an end-user?

[–] Rufio@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you know what an analogy is?

[–] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sure, but your analogy doesn't make any sense. There is no downside to you because of this feature being in your car in a disabled state.

[–] elbarto777@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

That was my analogy, not of the person you replied for.

Disabled features also add complexity to your car, which may or may not affect how much you pay for repairs.

[–] Rufio@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It’s not my analogy, but it does make sense if you even remotely think about it. The downside is that my car carries extra weight in the form of this additional hardware. Teslas are heavy enough as-is with their giant batteries, I’d rather remove any and all unnecessary weight for the sake of my tire tread life (and battery life). Also depending on exactly what the hardware is, it can be an additional point of failure that could potentially cause things that I do have access to to break. Lastly, it’s fair to assume that the price of the car would be cheaper if Tesla didn’t have to install this hardware into every car even if it will never be used, so you are likely already paying for this in “hidden” costs that are just rolled into the total price of the car before even paying to enable the features.

[–] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 0 points 1 year ago

The downside is that my car carries extra weight in the form of this additional hardware.

No it doesn't. As far as I know FSD doesn't require additional hardware. It uses the hardware already in the car for other purposes (like lane assist, emergency braking, etc).

[–] MossBear@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Free and open source software is indeed fantastic.

[–] Thurgo@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

The pricing and resale structure for "full self driving" is insane and anti-consumer so I lean towards enabling the software with a jailbreak not being a horrible thing. I certainly would have no issue with this being done on a used car that had the paid "full self driving" software removed by the mothership.

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, people should be using open source software and Tesla should have its best software on every car for public safety.

[–] BorgDrone@lemmy.one -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Should programmers work for free? Will someone provide me with a free car to develop this on? Will someone provide me with a free test track?

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

Should programmers work for free?

Most of the Internet as well as the Fediverse is built on open source software by people who aren't working for free.

Will someone provide me with a free test track?

Should I be hit by a self-driving car by someone who didn't pay extra to make it safer?

[–] _haha_oh_wow_@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The programmers who wrote the code were already paid, this argument doesn't really hold up.

[–] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The programmers who wrote the code were already paid, this argument doesn’t really hold up.

They can be paid because the company they work for charges money for what they produce.

The programmers who wrote the code were already paid, this argument doesn’t really hold up.

The idea that all, or even most, software should be open source is also ridiculous.

I think OSS is great, but it's mainly suitable for a specific class of software. Specifically: software that everyone needs and where there is no point in having a lot of different implementations. If something is needed by everyone, then everyone should pitch in share the cost and effort. Take operating systems: everyone needs a general purpose OS, so having something like Linux makes sense. Everyone needs a HTML rendering engine, so that also makes sense as an OSS project. More specific software with a small target audience is better suited as closed software.

[–] MyTurtleSwimsUpsideDown@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think OSS is great, but it’s mainly suitable for a specific class of software. Specifically: software that everyone needs and where there is no point in having a lot of different implementations.

Tell me you don’t understand OSS without telling me you don’t understand OSS.

[–] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago

So if I need to have some very specific software developed for my company, why would that need to be OSS?