this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2023
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I can't imagine willingly working for a company this openly evil. Imagine sitting through an all hands like this.
Some software engineers are fine with temporarily casting aside their morals in exchange for a north of 200k USD salary.
That's like someone saying "I didn't make the rules" while enforcing them. It removes exactly zero responsibility.
"I was only following ze orders"
Exactly.
If you have a skill set that lets you choose between working an for an ethical company for 100k and working for an evil company for 200k, it's on you if you choose the latter.
What if I pick the 100k one... then get sick, have medical bills, can't work anymore, and end up in debt? Because, let me tell you, being ethical only got me more insomnia.
What if I pick the 200k one and have to live with the fact that I made the world a worse place for everyone else? Being selfish is fine of course, but I don't even earn 50k, 100k would already be ridiculous. I can't imagine the difference between 100k and 200k being that big of an improvement to one's life to justify increasing the suffering of others so much.
Well, I figure out the difference between 100k and 200k in how many years would it take me to get those extra 100k... like, right now, some extra 100k would solve all my financial problems for the foreseeable future, even possibly for life (yeah, I might not have all that much life expectancy left).
Had I been more selfish when I had the chance, I'd be much better off now. The way things are, I'm also suffering while others are... suffering the same, just someone else got more selfish in my place, we won nothing.
Then how would the 200k job magically make things better? The kind of medical bills you're talking about aren't payable unless you're a 1%er. You're screwed either way. And I say that as someone who also has chronic insomnia.
100k is slightly more than what I'd need right now to stop worrying. Had I got that several years ago, chances are I wouldn't even get this sick in the first place, meaning that would likely be several times extra 100k... and it clearly didn't stop others from taking the high pay road, so being more ethical only screwed me, didn't even prevent others from getting screwed.
BS. Meta engineers can work anywhere they want. It is absolutely their fault that they choose to continue enabling Meta. Meta couldn't survive without them.
Many other professions have ethical standards. Software engineering should be no different.
Software engineers (the ones who work in firms producing nonfree software) have little to no class consciousness since none of them actually have meaningful ownership of the code they produce. They are just laborers of a greater executive/shareholders' visions. This way, they get to deflect blame since they were "another cog in the machine."
Software engineers will not EVER push back on these companies because they have no hutzpah materially (worker ownership) or socially (Corporate mindshare). Opponents of free software correctly point this out but never go further than "i just need to make money."
Why try to make enemies? I'm the kind of person you're talking about and I've absolutely pushed back and even left jobs over ethical issues.
No need to stereotype and create artificial divisions. We're on the same side.
Yeah, this and the other reply was helpful. What I said wasnt constructive and I apologize. This kind of thing just gets me super edgy and I channeled it in the wrong way. Thanks.
Y'all made up... lol. Now unionize!
I mean you gotta eat. I dont work for meta but for an industry that is probably scum. I think what I do adds value to it being less evil. I also do the bare minimum and they pay me so I think thats a win-win.
How easily could you get a job elsewhere though? Meta devs have a choice and they chose greed. These aren't people struggling to pay bills dude. I'm getting sick of people acting like they are.
And note that I did say "willingly". I understand there are people at Meta, especially non-devs, who may not have a choice. I doubt they are anywhere near a majority though.
Software engineers can find high paying jobs easily, they can choose. Unless they want to eat caviar at every meal.
Thats a very broad statement that is only true for some software engineers
Which kind of software engineers have trouble finding high paying jobs relatively to where they live?
Disabled and/or burnt out ones.
This applies to any profession, so back to my initial point.
I guess I'm missing where you made your initial point of "this applies to any profession". Could you please restate your point?
I'm talking about the condition of software engineers, and being disabled/burnt out applies to any profession, so it's not a valid argument to counter my point that software engineers can get high paying jobs and can choose where they want to work.
You're trying to tell me that Meta devs can't find a job anywhere else? Give me a break. It's hilarious how this thread touched such a nerve.
Did he say anything about software engineers? It's not as if thats the only job available at corporations.
It's the majority of the payroll at this kind of company, and I wanted to mention them in particular. Do you disagree with my statement applied to software engineers?