mathias

I came here to post that link. Now I don't have to. :)

The design flaw with "Quote Tweets" is right there in the name, but not where you think it is. Is it not the "Quote" part, but the "Tweets" part. Twitter inherently works differently than the services in the Fediverse.

The design flaw of Twitter is its algorithm combined with that it is advertising driven. An algorithm that benefits from people interacting with posts. An algorithm that repeatedly pushes controversial things in front of as many eyeballs as possible, to create even more interaction. If you didn't (re-) act the first time, it keeps doing it. It does that because it means more eyeballs watching ads too. That is what they sell.

Mastodon and the Fediverse does not have an algorithm nor do they have ads. Here a post, regardless of content, gets its slot in the chronological timeline and...well, that's it.

To be able to quote on the other hand has been a feature of many different platforms/services for tens of years. It is one tool of many to enrich a dialogue, to make a point or to reinforce an argument with external facts etc. It has been used for years without the Twitter-like abuse, because unlike Twitter most services/platforms do not have an algorithm infested at its core, just users who wish to interact in the most sociable and simple way possible.

Further to that, in none of the Fediverse services that, as pointed out earlier in the thread, has quote capability does it work like it does on Twitter. Why? Because people here decided to do it "right". Here a quote isn't about someone who isn't informed of that you've quoted them. In fact, depending on their notification settings they can see if someone has quoted them just as easily as they can see if someone has replied to their post. They can keep an eye on their own post, even interact with more/new users that get to see the original, if they wish. The original poster still has control.

Currently that doesn't work on Mastodon though. On Mastodon people still quote others, it isn't like it isn't happening already today. They are sadly forced to "hack" their way around it in an ugly way that

a) Doesn't have to involve the original poster at all, or send a notification to a user that someone has quoted them, and that there now is a discussion about their post "over there". The creator of the original post has absolutely no control.

b) Is really quite bad for accessibility (turning text into images for example is very rarely a great thing)

EDIT: correcting spelling

Just thinking out loud: Does ActivityPub say anything about titles? I'm asking as I don't know, but I am also thinking whichever route that is the closest to "the standard" probably should be the preferred route.

Ideally all Fediverse services should be using an as-close-as-possible interpretation of ActivityPub. If that standard in turn is lacking, that is the problem that should be solved.

The Fediverse in general and Mastodon in particular lack the functionality of "groups", which surely is one of the most asked-for features for both Mastodon and the rest of the services. With Lemmy the Fediverse can get groups (of sorts). However, if Lemmy bend-over backwards just for Mastodon it might set a precedence in "you/me/we are all on Mastodon" as opposed to "we are all in the Fediverse, using ActivityPub".

If on the other hand "everyone but Mastodon" is (or could be) using titles already, the Mastodon leadership (hah) has to look at how badly they want the groups-functionality, and if they therefore would be willing to adapt to Lemmy, ActivityPub and the rest of the services that are closer to the actual standard.

Perhaps can find a way forward at the bottom of this link: https://docs.akkoma.dev/stable/installation/otp_en/

There is a comparison here too: https://akkoma.dev/AkkomaGang/akkoma/

Hah, forgot to say: Yes, the shoutbox and chat was removed. As I run an instance-of-one in any case I don't miss them.

Also, Akkoma dev has made friends with the Glitch-social people and so the "advanced" Mastodon-fe is updated and available again. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles in functionality from Akkomas pleroma-fe though. Also, for those inclined, there is a soapbox-fe too. I don't run it so don't know much about it, other than that it looks simplistic and nice, but I prefer pleroma-fe (in Akkomas version) so haven't tried it.

Firstly, this will have to be from memory of my old (actually current stable version) install of Pleroma, and things I have reacted positively on:

• There are back-end changes. Not sure what impact they have had, but I've seen the Pleroma devs migrating in things to Pleroma from Akkoma, so obviously some things have been solved by Akkoma.
• Regular updates - not something Pleroma can be accused of. Akkoma does a new release the second Saturday each month, and has a clear roadmap everyone can see (good expectation management).
• Admin options in admin-fe has been cleared up, and actually work. Still areas that could do with improvements (as they are inherited from Pleroma), but I remember settings that were confusing and/or plainly didn't work for me in Pleroma "just works" in Akkoma. Possibly related to first point in this list.
• The rest is GUI things (and now I am only talking about pleroma-fe). I don't know how, or who, configured the instances you've been looking at, but I have not encountered any other micro-blogging service, on the Fediverse or elsewhere, with as much functionality before (I have accounts on "everything", for testing).
• Tree-view of threads (an optional account setting)
• A "floating" bar saying "Collapse" that always stay within reach if you've "folded out" a thread which turned out to be 3 miles long and you're not looking forward to scrolling the next 5 minutes.
• Search (full-text) works fine (IMHO). Was a hit-and-miss in my old Pleroma instance, and could previously generate different results on repeated searches. With Akkoma it seems to "just work".
• Lists and list management - massive improvement. Could still be improved further, but a huge step up from Pleroma.
• Follow hashtags
• Translations (I use DeepL)

A lot of the rest it has inherited from Pleroma, which was good to start with. Pretty much everything can be styled (except easily changing fonts unless you wish to code) from GUI settings (I run a Dracula inspired self-styled theme). It has Misskey emojis/animations, but I don't care (at all) about those. Quote posting is the same as in Pleroma. It has all the filter-options from Pleroma too. There is nothing in Pleroma that isn't in Akkoma. There's lots in Akkoma that isn't in Pleroma.

Most importantly, compared to Mastodon and pretty much all other fediverse micro-blogging services: it dynamically shows the contents in all threads, and on profiles. If it doesn't have the stuff you are looking at (say, a profile), it runs off to get it for you, and within a couple of seconds it has populated that profile, instead of staying empty (like on Mastodon, Misskey, Calckey etc). The same goes for threads: it goes out to collect replies from people even if you haven't seen them (or, their instances) before, instead of staying empty/invisible (like on Mastodon/Calckey). So..."proper" Federation.

But yeah, something like that. :)

It is indeed what I'm running these days. Loving it. It is like someone has made a "paper cuts"-list of Pleroma and then "just fixed it", and then added small sweet little things that make for better usability. Great stuff. Made me finally sort out a Liberapay account so I could show my support in ways that matter.

This is what that settings panel looks like for ActivityPub, within Akkoma.

Pretty sure it is a group. I can search for it, and see its "profile" page, which is the same profile as over here in Lemmy. Only shows "Request Sent!" since yesterday when I tried to add it.

Hmm...found the setting alright, but it was already on "off", so I guess it is something else then.

Thanks. I shall have a look. It is an Akkoma instance-of-one with only me on it, so I am the admin.