Muaddib

joined 2 weeks ago
[–] Muaddib@sopuli.xyz 11 points 5 days ago (3 children)

A magic cloak that can hide from Death can probably hide from Accio, too.

[–] Muaddib@sopuli.xyz 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Magic is that hard, but being a genius doesn't make you good at it. Rote memorisation makes you good at it. Hermione isn't a genius, she enjoys rote learning. Harry and Ron crave stimulation, and there's none to be found in Rowling's magic system. Rowling might have intended magic to be easy, but she made a mistake. Rowling enjoys rote memorisation, so it's easy for her and her self insert, but not for normal people who want to be intellectually stimulated. Rowling accidentally made magic hard, and the story makes more sense with her mistake in it.

[–] Muaddib@sopuli.xyz 2 points 5 days ago

That's the backstory of Gloryhammer

[–] Muaddib@sopuli.xyz 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Harry Potter's magic system isn't simple.

[–] Muaddib@sopuli.xyz 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Rincewind isn't useless at most things, he's only useless at magic.

Esk is actually able to use magic to solve problems, because she's a precocious child and also female.

[–] Muaddib@sopuli.xyz -3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Well, the needs of a fiction reader and the needs of a character in the world are different. Harry actually needed to learn magic. And there's no logic to it, so all he could do was rote memorisation. He would have been happier with a magic system that makes sense.

Hermione is supposed to be a genius nerd, and yet she does far less in 7 books to actually study her magic system, than Vin has done by the start of the second book. Vin isn't a nerd or a genius, she's just a capable hero living in a world where magic makes sense, so she's better at studying than Hermione. Hermione gets 8 hours to do it a day for 6 years and still can't compete with Vin.

[–] Muaddib@sopuli.xyz 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

It also corrupts Isildur, makes Bilbo grumpy, gives us insight into Galadriel, creates tension between Frodo, Sam, and Gollum, gives Gollum multiple personalities, starts an argument at Rivendell, makes Gandalf fuck off for a decade, gives us insight into the strengths of hobbits, weakens Frodo, drives the epilogue, creates the ringwraiths, and contextualises the stagnancy of the elves.

[–] Muaddib@sopuli.xyz 5 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Looking evil isn't a limitation, it's flavour text. It doesn't affect the story, it just gives us vibes. If there's one thing Rowling is good at, it's writing flavour text to convey vibes. But there's no plot in that limitation. Horcruxes break Sanderson's second law, and that's why they're not as interesting as the One Ring. The One Ring puts challenges in front of every character who interacts with it: Sauron, Isildur, Elrond, Bilbo, Gandalf, Frodo, Gollum, Galadriel, even Samwise. It promises all of them something they want, and takes a price from every one, changing the course of the story many times. Samwise is the least affected, but it still takes away something he loves; his best friend.

Horcruxes do four things: they kill Dumbledore, give Harry a quest, make Ron grumpy, and ex machina the deus. Bringing Voldy back and manifesting Riddle don't count because those are retcons, and we're talking about writing processes.

Two of those things they do are just because they're a macguffin. Literally anything the characters want could have been substituted. Ron grumpy is, again, flavour text. The Deus ex Machina is the one interesting thing they do to change the story.

[–] Muaddib@sopuli.xyz 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (6 children)

We do, at the very least, know why Gandalf's magic works. The universe was sung into being, and Gandalf is a divine being who can participate in that song. We know where his magic comes from. We know it's divine in origin.

We don't know where Harry's magic comes from. Were wizard blessed by a god? Is it a magic gene? Is it fueled by intelligence, or imagination? There are no answers.

Take horcruxes vs the one ring. One is clearly a second rate copy of the other. But the one ring has a clear limitation for Sauron: It holds most of his power, and if it's destroyed, he can be defeated. What limitation do horcruxes have for Voldemort? He has to split his soul into parts. What does that mean practically? Nothing. It's not a limitation, it's just a reason the good guys don't use it. From the council of Elrond, we know the rules of the one ring, and we know how to use them to solve a problem. Sanderson's first law. Its limitation for Sauron is more interesting than its power for Sauron. Its limitation for the Fellowship is more interesting than its power for the Fellowship. Sanderson's second law.

[–] Muaddib@sopuli.xyz 4 points 6 days ago (8 children)

I think Star Wars' magic system has rules. They're philosophical rules.

If you're paying attention to The Force Awakens, you notice that Rey is losing to Kylo, up until she gets angry at him. And then her stance changes, and she starts attacking way faster. Rey used the dark side. You only notice that happening if you understand the rules of the Force. And if you do, in the next movie, you're rewarded. Luke is teaching Rey, and she goes straight to the dark. Rey is a natural dark side user, way moreso than Anakin and Luke. If you knew the magic system, you saw that coming. Now, what this subplot culminates in is Rey Palpatine, which is bad writing. But that's not the magic system's fault. The magic system did its job perfectly. It's possible to understand how magic works in Star Wars, and that gives you insight into what will happen next. That's basically a tweak on Sanderson's first law. Episodes 8 and 9 also expand on the whole dyad thingy instead of adding something new, just like Sanderson says. And The Last Jedi introduces a limitation (You can't force project this far, the effort would kill you), and then uses it later in the same movie with Luke. The underlying principles of Sanderson's laws are there. The magic has rules and the rules inform the story.

[–] Muaddib@sopuli.xyz 5 points 6 days ago

Yeah, book 3 is the one where Rowling made an effort to delve into the workings of the magic system. The Patronus is the only spell we actually learn how to cast. (No, levio-sah doesn't count). The time turner has limitations which allow Rowling to tell an interesting story with it.

Rowling made magic interesting for one book, and Harry became interested in magic.

Then she changed her mind.

[–] Muaddib@sopuli.xyz 22 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (10 children)

No, I like soft magic systems when they're good. Take Star Wars. It's so soft. It's so soft that when GL introduced midichlorians to try and make it hard, everyone hated it.

The Force is good because it represents a certain philosophy. It's basically the Tao. Everything the Force can do is thematically appropriate and serves to teach us the philosophies of the Jedi, the Sith, and the other force users. The light side is harmony and believing in yourself. The dark side is domination and corruption. All the force powers support these themes and illustrate the force users embodying their philosophical beliefs in the world. Obi-Wan uses mind tricks because he believes in nonviolent misdirection. Palpatine uses lightning because he believes in ultimate power.

Rowling's magic system means... Magic. It's there to convince us that this fantasy world is magic. The Force can break Sanderson's laws because it means something more than just magic. It's philosophically consistent, and that's more important than being internally consistent. Rowling's magic only relates to Rowling's magic, so it needs to be internally consistent to work. And it isn't, so it doesn't.

 

A lot of people point out that it doesn't make any sense that Harry and Ron didn't like their schoolwork. Well I figured out why:

It's because the magic system is just as boring in-universe as out of universe. It doesn't make any sense in universe either. Harry and Ron realised Rowling's magic system kinda stinks way before we did, because they spent all day learning it.

If Sanderson had been writing Harry Potter, then Harry and Ron would have liked learning magic as much as Hermione did (Also, Sanderson actually DID write a book about a super-school, it's called Skyward, it's good)

 

Let's say I'm vegan and I need to take vitamin B12 supplements to be healthy. Furthermore, let's say I have ADHD, I forgot to take them for a month, I feel like shit, and while I know to take them now, there's no guarantee I'll remember tomorrow.

If I were to take 2 tablets today, an amount which I surely need, would my body actually absorb all the B12 it needs, or would I piss out the second tablet? Do I have to wait until tomorrow to absorb the nutrients my body needs now?

 
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