this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023

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I had a thought (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 1 year ago by SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml to c/comradeship@lemmygrad.ml

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I don’t think it’s unique but I’ve had it for a while and figured it’d be good to share.

I’ve been thinking about the Bolshevik revolution and the subsequent communist revolutions that followed and it baffled me how demonized they are. Yes, I know it’s due to rampant anticommunism but taking away that aspect it feels no different from the French Revolution that is way less hated.

Don’t get me wrong, there is a weird small uptick in people defending the French monarchy, Marie Antoinette specifically, but for the most part people seem way less opposed to the French lobbing off heads with a guillotine versus the Bolsheviks gunning down the Romanovs. Is it because there were children killed? But children were killed by the French revolutionaries too, so what gives? Not for nothing but getting shot to death seems a little less brutal than getting your head cut off. I’m not judging the French for this decision either, I understand why it needed to happen and so does history, at least the history I learned in school.

Is this hypocrisy because the Bolshevik revolution happened in more recent history? Again, I know anticommunism is the major factor it’s just hard to rationalize the hatred outside of red scare propaganda.

It’s just so wild to me that nobody really cares about the French monarchy dying via guillotine but weep real tears for the Tsar. I mean, my mom watches history shows (those dramatized ones, mostly) and she came to me about how sad their deaths were and how good of a dad Nicholas II was, how he seemed like such a nice man. It was, and still is, jarring as hell but I didn’t know what to say at the time considering I was less educated and a high schooler. I know that damn Anastasia movie did major damage as well. Sucks that the songs are bangers.

Anyway I think that’s my whole thought on this subject. Please share any insights any of you have on this as I’d love to hear it and perhaps learn more!

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[–] knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's because of what happened after. It's not the violent overthrow of the monarchy in itself, it's the fact that the French replaced their monarchy with a liberal dictatorship of capital, and the Soviets replaced their monarchy with a revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat. It just looks like plain old anti-communism to me.

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m aware of that aspect, I’m just baffled by the sympathy given to the Romanovs compared to the French monarchy. Maybe I’m not articulating myself well so for that I apologize.

[–] ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It’s just anti-communism you’re overthinking it, liberals dont give a shit about the atrocities committed by liberal democracies, have you ever actually had a conversation with a liberal who properly understands and condemns the horrors of like the Japanese internment camps for example

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I tend to overthink a lot, I take responsibility for that. I guess I thought there was more to it.

About the internment camps, they’re never really talked about here, neither are the atrocities committed against Chinese railroad workers. It’s kind of just forgotten about like many other crimes.

[–] ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nothing wrong with overthinking, better to overthink than blindly accept everything

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I figured because my mom doesn’t even know what Communism is there may have been other factors, but I guess there isn’t.

[–] Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

doesn’t even know what Communism is

Exactly! There would be too many communists for the ruling class to handle if anyone actually knew what it was.

That’s why in Texas schools, the teachers just say “Communism will never work”

[–] cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It pains me how accurate your last sentence is. Even when I was a libertarian and later liberal, I was pretty intelligent from a young age and I remained very skeptical when in high-school in Texas, they always drilled into our heads that "communism doesn't work", even in fucking English literature class of all goddamn places, and I remained skeptical, especially because even when I was like 8 years old, I would look up and google and wikipedia topics that interested me, like communism, death, the afterlife, science, paleontology.

Maybe it wasn't so obvious back then, and I might be giving myself too much credit. But it always infuriated me even when I was anti-communist, that people say blatant bullshit anti-communist like that. I figured that if communism "didn't work" on at least some level, the Soviet Union and China wouldn't have hundreds of millions of citizens and western supporters while also having kick-started dozens of revolutions across the globe, and communist parties and rebel groups wouldn't still exist to this day.

I'm sure my teachers in middle and high-school meant well on some level, and the Texas board of education sucks ass and probably forced or indoctrinated them into repeating capitalist lies, but it still hurt that we were forced to swallow capitalist boot.

[–] Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It pains me how accurate your last sentence is.

I graduated in Plano, and that was a direct quote from a high school teacher. At least we made it here, comrade. It’s a shame so many others won’t.

[–] cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago

You're from Plano? Sweet, I'm from DFW/NRH! Maybe we could pm and shoot the shit together irl.

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

I think my mom is a special case because she didn’t know what communism was at all. As in, she didn’t know what the word was, the history, famous figures, etc. she only learned about it after I educated her on some things. It was surface level but enough to get her raving about Cuba so that’s cool.

I have yet to teach her about Tsar Nicholas II but if she ever brings him up I’ll try my best to do so.

[–] WaterBowlSlime@lemmygrad.ml 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

On the whole, westerners aren't nearly as anti-monarchy as they say they are. Remember when Queen Elizabeth died? Tons of people that weren't even British were crying tears for her. I don't get it either

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 21 points 1 year ago

It’s weird here in Canada because people don’t care about the monarchy until you bring up leaving it, then everyone starts screeching about the constitution.

[–] rigor@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 1 year ago

As others have said, France became a liberal dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, while the Bolsheviks created a workers state.

Keep in mind, if you look into french history, the more radical elements are denounced. For instance, decrying purges done by the Jacobins, while the monarchy slaughtered many more. French schools actually condem many aspects of the revolution, even though the system is content with the end result.

Another point: guillotines where actually conceived as a humaine alternative to hangings. You don't feel much when decapitated in a fraction of a second, even if the end result is macabre. On the other hand, if you are shot, hopefully a bullet finds its way somewhere that will end you quickly. Either way, good riddance to the monarchs; both dynasties oppersed their people and perpetuated systemic harm.

[–] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 1 year ago

It boils down to "russia bad" and antibolshevism thanks to the red scare propaganda. I've heard my grandma say she hates bolsheviks because her father told her to do so (she is 90yo) and they come from a very backwards town lol, you can bet antibolshevism was on every damn newspaper during those years.

[–] Valbrandur@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago

The French revolutionaries were hated by much of Europe's population back in their time too. Spain is the example that better comes to my mind but I bet in other places they were seen in a similar light as well.