"In particular, in the article, the special military operation is called 'Russia's invasion of Ukraine,' 'Russian aggression against Ukraine,' 'Russian-Ukrainian war' and 'war',"

"The material contains information about numerous victims among the servicemen of the Russian Federation, as well as the civilian population of Ukraine, including children, which does not correspond to the official data published by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation,"

[–] mekhos@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Invades and slaughters "Hey, stop making notes"

[+] basiliscos@lemmy.ml -6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

The first it have to be proven, that Russians are slaughters. They state, that they leave city (almost) without civil victims:

https://t.me/informdefense/600

The situation can be simialar to Assad's chemical attack on Douma, Syria, which a few years(!) later was proven that the attack was staged by Western media and "White helmets".

[+] crulife@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] basiliscos@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The proofs should be checked from the propaganda of the both involved parties: Russian and the West.

That's actually China's position, afaik.

[+] crulife@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] basiliscos@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That sounds good in theory, but what is the standard of checking the proofs?

The same way as it is done on the judges: keep silence, and let all parties say their agruments, without pressure, interruptions, muting etc. And then, try to evaluate them, find lies or untold things etc.

Actually, there was an attempt to make such an open discussion in UN Security Council, but it was banned by GB.

Also since Russia uses lying as a primary political tool, how can we trust anything they say?

Exactly the same I can tell about West? I'm Belarusian, and I'm an eyewitness of August 2020 events in my country, and I know how the events were highlighted in western media. If there is no open discussions, ane everybody just attributes to oppenents as "liars", that actually means, that parties are not interested in listening to others, and find some kind of truth.

[–] mekhos@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

These telegram channels are just propaganda pipelines straight from the Kremlin

[–] American_Communist22@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 years ago

wow those russians are just everywhere in your mind aint they

[–] pingveno@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago

Mark my words, Wikipedia is going to be blocked for not bowing to the Kremlin's narrative here. There can be no dissent.

[–] TheBlurstOfGuys@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Good we should have more of that. Wikipedia is overrun with fake news, they still have a page up about the "Uighur Genocide" hoax.

[–] DengueDucky@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Honest question, what evidence is there of it being a hoax?

[–] TheBlurstOfGuys@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Honest answer, there's generally no evidence for hoaxes as such, just no evidence for it having happened.

[–] jonahhw@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What about the "sources" section of said page about the Uyghur genocide?

[–] TheBlurstOfGuys@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

What about it? Let's go through them:

Abdulhakim Idris: Menace. China's Colonization of the Islamic World & Uyghur Genocide, 329 pp., Center for Uyghur Studies, Washington, DC, 2020, ISBN 978-1-7365414-1-8

This is one of several NED funded organisations created to spread lies and propaganda to manufacture consent for American warmongering.

Clarke, Michael (9 April 2008). "China's "War on Terror" in Xinjiang: Human Security and the Causes of Violent Uighur Separatism". Terrorism and Political Violence. Informa UK Limited. 20 (2): 271–301. doi:10.1080/09546550801920865. ISSN 0954-6553. S2CID 144284074. Clarke, Michael E. (2011). Xinjiang and China's Rise in Central Asia - A History (1st ed.). London: Taylor & Francis. doi:10.4324/9780203831113. ISBN 978-1-1368-2706-8.

These two are from long before there were ever any allegations of any kind of genocide. There was US funded terrorism going on, that's all.

Dwyer, Arienne M. (2005). The Xinjiang Conflict: Uyghur Identity, Language Policy and Political Discourse (PDF). Washington, D.C.: East-West Center Washington. hdl:10125/3504. ISBN 1-932728-29-5. ISSN 1547-1330.

This is from 2005, the US was bombing Xingjiang at the time and funding extremism to make trouble for China.

Starr, S. Frederick, ed. (2004). Xinjiang: China's Muslim Borderland. Studies of Central Asia and the Caucasus. Armonk, NY: M.E. Sharpe. ISBN 978-0-7656-1318-9.

Again, too early to even allege anything.

Hayes, Anna; Clarke, Michael (2015). Inside Xinjiang: Space, Place and Power in China's Muslim Far Northwest (1st ed.). London: Routledge. doi:10.4324/9781315770475. ISBN 9781315770475.

Another uncontroversial piece.

None of these back up any claims of genocide. Nobody's even ever found a single refugee. There was this person who did an AMA only for reddit to call her out.

You can read people who are actually from there who are stunned to hear that people are being told this obvious nonsense.

etc

etc.

It originally started with a report authored by Adrian Zenz, a far-right fundamentalist Christian who opposes homosexuality and gender equality, supports “scriptural spanking” of children, and believes he is “led by God” on a “mission” against China. He says he interviewed 8 people and came to his conclusions about millions of people in prison. He's a senior fellow in China studies at the far-right "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation", which was established by the US government in 1983. He also thinks that Jews who don't convert to Christianity should be wiped out.