this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2024
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Quelle surprise. Societal dictates are pushing them to the right.

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[–] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Short-term solutions are hard. In past work, I’ve proposed solutions to men’s compensatory anger and aggression at both the individual and societal levels. For example, I believe that it’s important for adults, such as parents, clinicians and teachers, to resist the urge to put undue pressures on boys, as well as to equip boys with the tools they need to resist such pressure. At a broader level, it’s important to promote gender diversity in positions of leadership and power, so that boys learn that people of all genders—not just men—share the responsibility for providing and protecting. If we can target the mechanisms underlying the pressure that boys and men experience, we should be able to mitigate the anger and aggression they exhibit to prove their manhood.

Well, a lot of the families of these young men are also deeply involved in the evangelical community that teach that these pressures are not only societal, they are God-given and healthy. They learn that if they don't adopt this type of masculinity, they are going against the biblical version of the man. They might not even make it to heaven. They'll be burning in eternal fire. And if your parents and your church and your day-to-day leaders keep pushing this, it's no surprise that they end up voting for the toxic masculinity Trump represents.

[–] Powderhorn@beehaw.org 2 points 2 weeks ago

Belief in anything is weird. Seriously? Some god? Y'all find weird ways to want some god to be involved.

[–] souperk@reddthat.com 10 points 2 weeks ago

IMO it's all about understanding our emotions. The patriarchy actively teaches people to supress and ignore their emotions, a fact well studied by feministic theory. At the same time emotional manipulation a core part of the far-right recipe. Promoting mental health could go a long way in improving society.

[–] BigBolillo@beehaw.org 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

A big portion of men not just gen z men are tired of feminist and LGBT ideology being pushed everywhere so something like Trump winning was expected at this point.

[–] Powderhorn@beehaw.org 40 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That's not remotely the problem. Women having agency allows many good things, and complaining about LGBTQ+ people wanting rights is bigoted.

[–] TehPers@beehaw.org 10 points 2 weeks ago

The problem was that his campaign was entirely founded on hatred, and there are a lot of hateful people. LGBTQ+ was one target. Other targets were women, Haitians, hispanic immigrants (both legal and undocumented), etc.

In gaming specifically, DEI became a target as well. Guess who made a big stink about it to start with?

It's honestly disgusting.

[–] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 34 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Can you explain a tenet of LGBT ideology?

[–] Bronzebeard@lemm.ee 18 points 2 weeks ago

"wanting to be considered people and not hidden away" is apparently too much for some people

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Thinking that posting "kill all men" is a net benefit to society?

My point being: You'll have to dare a perspective shift to actually understand the issue. No, it's not about gay marriage and stuff. People by and large, at the utmost, just don't give a fuck. Live and let live is popular as ever. Hearing, as a 12yold boy, "Men ruled the world for millennia now it's our turn, you have no problems, men, boys, by definition can't have any problems, also mutilating your genitals is perfectly justified look at this one random study which says that if you don't wash yourself then circumcision reduces AIDS rates"... yeah. 12 years is significantly less than millennia, why in the everloving fuck would you blame the poor kid for it and don't get me started on the circumcision shit the US is cooked.

As said: Dare that perspective shift. It's not about queer theory, it's not about emancipation, it's about institutionalised cattiness and bitter, over-zealous rhetoric creating a particular appearance. It's also pretty much limited to the US, there's bits and pieces floating over the Atlantic but our gender relations and politics over here aren't fucked-up enough to generate that kind of shit ourselves. Also we don't mutilate genitals.

Or, differently put: Take all the pain you've ever seen within the community created by ace and bi erasure, about TERFy enmity, about transmeds, about whatnot, and funnel it onto a young kid who has no letter, not even the "A" for ally they stole from the aces, because why would you give a fuck about ally status when you're bitter and want to let off steam. Do that in queer spaces. Do that with your therapist, don't do it in a public political space -- the 12yolds are reading -- and even more so don't try to justify it as "part of the struggle". And actively work against queer spaces becoming self-pity circlejerks of bitterness. Be uppity, be brash, be loud, be fun, be colourful, don't be aggressive. Hug a homophobe they hate that, don't spit fire on them their neuroses love that.

[–] Doom@ttrpg.network 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Lol how is that LGBT ideology?

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It isn't, and it is. As said: A matter of perspective. What it definitely is part of is the theory of praxis.

Queer theory itself certainly doesn't vibe with the essentialism inherent in stuff like "kill all men". But that doesn't mean that the two don't get associated in a 12yold's brain if "kill all men" is what he hears from a blue-haired lesbian. I'm talking in caricatures, of course, just vaguely gesturing at broader political/social interactions.

And, also, granted, in a different socio-economic environment that blue-haired lesbian probably wouldn't matter, at all (might even have been a political lesbian appropriating queerness). But our 12yold is also seeing his parents getting fired from their jobs, denied housing assistance, is getting made fun of for it in school, is simultaneously worrying about how to, one time, get a girl and found a family and the situation looks dire indeed -- not a siltation which would be conducive of taking a level-headed look at the situation and conclude "that women was just angry, it doesn't mean anything". Instead, it's a convenient point to project generalised ire at, a scapegoat silencing that overpowering help- and hopelessness.

So, in short: "Why do they hate us"? Probably, almost certainly, not for any good reason. That doesn't mean that nothing can be done to make em love you, in fact it wouldn't be hard at all because they're love-starved and looking for at least a hope of a better future. Take them along for the ride and you'll have an ally for life. Antagonise them, don't step in when others pointlessly antagonise them, and you shot yourself in the knee.

[–] Doom@ttrpg.network 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Lmfao ramblings of a doofus

You're not talking in caricatures or vaguely gesturing broadly. You're creating a strawman.

None of that is real and then the question becomes two for, why the hell are you calling it queer theory or gay agenda or gender ideology. Because you're fucked by propaganda.

Second part, how do you say all this and not question the current "sTrAiGhT tHeOrY" existence we live

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

why the hell are you calling it queer theory

I'm calling it queer theory because that's what it's called. It's where terms like "heteronormative" come from. Much of it is about the relationship between social norms, or just what's common, and non-normative individuals, with a particular focus on sexual and gender minorities. And it, indeed, does not look too kindly on gender essentialism because that would mean erasure of non-binary gender experiences. Also because queer theorists don't like normativity which essentialism boils down to in practice, in one way or the other.

I am, broadly speaking, a huge fan of it. If I were to critique it... well, it isn't neuroqueer theory. I like the name though, "queer" should IMHO also apply to neurodivergent people. Can we get a letter? N is free, isn't it?

"gay agenda", "gender ideology" are terms you randomly introduced into the conversation.

Second part, how do you say all this and not question the current “sTrAiGhT tHeOrY” existence we live

You mean... heteronormativity? The kind of shit that queer theory analyses? Also there's plenty of queer straights around. Like, aces exist, trans folks exist. Enbies can also be straight.

[–] Doom@ttrpg.network 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Kid reads Tumblr and has Internet access, thinks he knows anything. You're on the Internet too much and it is showing, you do not engage in any sort of academic setting

You literally speak of these characters as if they're real people and that's how they really act. Spewing words like queer theory and gender ideology. People are fuckin hilarious

[–] BigBolillo@beehaw.org 2 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Everything related to gender ideology on the schools, hormones for children, etc.

[–] thebardingreen@lemmy.starlightkel.xyz 40 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)
  • Sick of feminist and LGBTQ ideology being pushed.
  • Can't really articulate what that is and what it means, or be specific about what they don't like about it.

Sadly, this tracks, this is this entire block of white men pretty much (and is identical to people who complain about "woke" and "critical race theory"). It's a result of flooding the zone with shit (google that if you don't know what it means) and if anything, it usefully tells us who's vulnerable to that (a tragically large number of people).

[–] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 23 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

That isn't a tenet. A tenet is a specific belief, like, "Jesus is the son of God", to use a Christian example. I am asking, because given that LGBT is a descriptive label for a group and not a prescriptive belief system/ ideology, I am dubious that you can list an ideological tenet.

[–] BigBolillo@beehaw.org 1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Maybe "trans women are women" there is a lot of men who believe that's not true.

[–] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

And you believe that it's not that the Right has succeeded in pushing anti-LGBT propaganda onto young white men so much that it has tipped them towards that stance, but rather that it is genuine backlash by young white men against LGBT beliefs?

[–] BigBolillo@beehaw.org 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I believe isn't just white men, a lot of men in general are not ok with the feminists and LGBT people preaching, and as men are IDK maybe 50% of the population that's half the votes, the fact it's radical people are just like 10% each side so both sides keep pushing their ideologies to take the remaining 80% votes.

[–] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 19 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

a lot of men in general are not ok with the feminists and LGBT people preaching

But they are okay with non-feminists and anti-LBGT people "preaching"? And can you clarify who are you referring to when you say "radical people"? Is that meant to be feminists and LGBT people?

[–] BigBolillo@beehaw.org 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Radical people of both sides right and left are just like 10% each. The remaining 80% of the population have to be convinced by both sides propaganda.

[–] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 16 points 2 weeks ago

I wanted to ask, "what exactly is 'radical' on the Left?", but I think it's very clear that you're coming from a viewpoint that is pretty well steeped in right-wing propaganda.

There is a fundamental issue at play here with your starting argument, which is the labeling of an affirmation of existence, e.g. "trans women are women" as an ideological position. To argue anything else is, by definition, to deny their existence. If trans women are not women, then they are not trans women, ipso facto. Denying someone's identity is, no matter how you cut it, a position of dehumanization.

If I told you that you are not actually whatever gender you identify as, and I got enough people to do the same, you'd be rightfully angry and upset. That you clearly do not have to contend with that reality makes it clear why you are apparently comfortable taking that stance towards others.

There is no 10 / 10 / 80 division of power or ideology; there's literally no factual basis for claiming that 80% of people are politically unaligned. The only purpose in that fabrication is to make a "both-sides" argument a la "Enlightened Centrism". Right-wing anti-LGBT ideology is a massively powerful and widespread influence, that encompasses most of the religious Christian populace. To claim they are somehow equivalent to the ~2.5% of people who are LGBT+, or that the pro-LGBT Left are actually 10% and the anti-LGBT right-wingers are 10%, is ridiculous.

Lastly, the most basic, core tenet of Feminism is "equality between genders". If someone believes that any tenet of feminism advocates inequality between genders, they have fallen prey to right-wing propaganda. If that equality is either threatening or unacceptable to someone, it should raise a ton of eyebrows.

[–] TheRtRevKaiser@beehaw.org 15 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not intending to make this assertion, but as a warning: transphobia, homophobia, and misogyny are not nice, and are not tolerated on Beehaw.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Actually I read that as misandry. Especially considering that when it comes to trans enmity TERFs are very much a driving force and those tend to be almost exclusively cis women, not men.

[–] BigBolillo@beehaw.org 1 points 2 weeks ago

Nowadays everything it's blamed to be some kind of phobia. Personally I don't think I'm one of these but anyway I'm leaving beehaw just in case, can you please ban my account to save some time deleting it?

[–] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 2 weeks ago

What a non answer!

[–] DogPeePoo@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 1 points 2 weeks ago

Even if it was, they wouldn't have rigged it so Gen Z and Gen X men in particular hate democracy.

[–] MachineFab812@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] iheartneopets@lemm.ee 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Not all, Gen Z starts at '95. Elder Gen Z is approaching their 30s

[–] MachineFab812@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 weeks ago

I was talking maturity-level, experience, education, etc. ...and character, in particular.