this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
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[–] Justice@lemmygrad.ml 47 points 1 year ago (19 children)

It’s honestly hilarious (in the fucked up shit way of course) that people are against this or making it $30, $50… who knows? What if, and let me assure you this is a CRAZY idea… but what if… workers received 100% of the value they produce and through a contract negotiated amongst their coworkers they can choose to scrape some of that 100% to reinvest in this company. Or would this be a cooperative of workers? Kinda like it is now. Actually EXACTLY like it is now. Except, there’s one or only a few people missing from the equation. Hmm. Ah yes, the investors/owners/executives. You know. The ones who PRODUCE FUCKING NOTHING YET SUCK ALL THE SURPLUS VALUE FROM THOSE WHO DO? Those people. Just yoink their stolen property and capital, give it to those who produce, and, like I said, I dunno, crazy ideas, let them figure it out. Or, more crazy ideas, perhaps some amount of the value is scraped “without consent” necessarily and goes into a giant pool of funds. Some massive reserve… perhaps headed by a federal agency of some sort. Hmm, who knows, maybe a federal reserve we could call it. And this centralized federal pool collector distributes the funds in a way as to invest… but it’s the workers investing in what benefits the workers, the vast majority of people in the country (or world) and not just little grifts and schemes to enrich those formerly capitalists who are now forcefully part of what they fear most… the proletariat.

I dunno, crazy fucking ideas though. Probably best to just remain completely atomized and cope by telling myself my boss stealing 9/10 of the value I create is fine because some other schlub gets 9.5/10 of his stolen and boy boy… man what an idiot! Glad I’m smart and aren’t being fucked over only a tiny amount less!

[–] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But of workers got there whole value, how could the dragons grow their hoard?

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[–] 201dberg@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's crab in a bucket mentality to so many people that make slightly more than minimum wage. "Why should burger flippers make as much as EMTs?" "If they raise minimum wage they will just raise the cost of living so I'll be poor." I know someone like this. They only care about themselves and their own status.

[–] Justice@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes. It’s crab in a bucket but also crabs that have been told by some other crab on the outside of the bucket yelling in that he made it out of the bucket by killing 40 crabs and climbing their corpses to freedom. Of course he was actually born outside the bucket or his father-crab had already piled those dead crabs up for him… but the desperate crabs in the bucket don’t know this and many will think yow smart he was and how they’re smart and not stupid like the crabs they’re currently stomping on.

I really stomped the crab analogy into the ground… or sand?

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[–] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Personally I argue for a $33.33 minimum wage, thought you could easily convince me it should be more

[–] AffineConnection@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Personally I argue for a $33.33 minimum wage

No! That’s bad because it means less money for the quadrillionaires!

[–] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am failing to see how this is my, or my comrades issues, maybe the quadrillionaires should pull themselves up from their bootstraps

[–] novibe@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If the owner class needs any more money, why don’t they get a freaking job??

[–] AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Even though I unequivocally support raising the minimum wage until profits are exactly equal to the minimum wage itself, I think the "minimum wage debate" sometimes gets a bit wonky because of how many bizarre problems Yankees sleepwalked into. I can definitely see somebody living on 15 an hour comfortably if they didn't have to pay like half of their wages on fake services like rent. As it stands they pay outrageous prices for worse versions of cheaper stuff in other countries, and have to work bullshit jobs like doordash/hellofresh to keep up.

Liberals love complaining that increasing wages will lead to inflation (which is already a dubious claim), but then they refuse the other reasonable alternative of redacting the landlords. Even though Stadians have negative class conscience as a society I think it's more likely for there to be some big city rent strike than for their stock exchange hub posing as a Congress passing even a 1 dollar increase in minimum wage. Not to mention gig economy bypassing the already pityful wage for big cities anyway.

I think reducing cost of living and increasing wages should go hand in hand, a thing that the ever-compartimentalising liberal hates to do. The don't pay campaign looked very promising in the UK and I think even made Truss back down on her shit relatively quickly. Hit them where it hurts ~~financially~~ and all.

Libs in the thread thinking they're "compromising" by voting Sanders is just rich, though.

[–] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I cannot explain how infurating the libs are at the moment, I do not understand why they are so insessent that we must work with the capitalist class, we do not need them, they need us but we do not need them, they are not our friends.

[–] AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 year ago

If they're from the USA they've been taught since young that slavery and apartheid were abolished by asking the racists nicely to stop, so it tracks. Amerika is so diverse and tolerant that torturer and tortured can live side by side in peace.

[–] taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Remember when we were arguing about $15 like ten years ago? $20 ain't really enough now tbh

[–] 201dberg@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 year ago

It should be close to $30

[–] Smallletter@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I feel lucky to be making 20 an hour but it is NOT enough, especially having kids.

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[–] PlasmaDistortion@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago

I made $7.25 an hour in 1996 while working at McDonalds. Who the hell would work for that now?

[–] ledlecreeper27@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 1 year ago

Western "democracy" be like:

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 1 year ago
[–] AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Your claim was that there was no entertainment. I showed you a page that shows around 10-20 national films per year in the 20th century. That's a lot of film. Now you're deflecting to say that the films are bad because their budget is low. First you're gonna have to show that expensive movies are automatically good given how shit every Marvel movie since Iron Man 1 has been, specially compared with the lower budget stuff like Jessica Jones. Then you're gonna have to show movies from the time of War and Piece in the USA that are actually so "superior" on quality and and budget.

You seem to still be insisting on "investors" as though they are necessary. Once a movie has sold well it can finance the following movies by itself without being tied down to some disconnected rich AMPTP CEO who won't pay his writers and actors. "Most movies" actually have very small budgets, for obvious reasons and you'll hardly find movies that cost hundreds of millions in film festivals. The vast majority of art is actually cheaply produced even in capitalism, just look at deviantart, steam, itch, youtube.

Why do you want to be your society to still be ruled by investors? You do know that if they can have 10% of the economy they'll try to get 20%, right? How many 2008s and 2020s do you need to learn?

I’d still rather a mix of capitalism and socialism with good production value.

I also drink my water with oil. Soap blends it very well.

[–] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago

You cannot mix Capitalism and Socialism, they are fundamentally incompatible

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