this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2024
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Europe

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[–] drolex@sopuli.xyz 22 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (6 children)

Ukraine has signed the Ottawa treaty that prohibits the use of mines. What consequences will that have on Ukraine and on the compliance of this kind of treaties by other signing countries?

(Of course Russia and the US, being the large piles of shit they are regarding weapons industry, haven't signed the treaty).

[–] Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works 18 points 6 days ago

Russia has shown that it breaks treaties whenever it sees fit. If Ukraine is to supposed to respect treaties, it needs to be supported to such an extend that it sees no need to break them.

[–] 0x815@feddit.org 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Why is it that some people frequently say something that Ukraine has 'signed treaties', or 'the West must not cross red lines' ...

All this without naming the aggressor in this war which is Russia. Russia permanently violates airspace of Poland, Romania, Moldova. Russia deploys sabotage activities in multiple countries across Europe, in the North Sea, the Baltic Sea, espionage activities in the Irish Sea. Russia gets decisive support by China in its war in Ukraine. North Korea is sending troops. Iran has been sending drones.

What consequences should that have on the compliance of treaties by countries, @drolex@sopuli.xyz?

[–] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

So because Russia doesn't play by the rules, no one else should?

[–] Doom@ttrpg.network 1 points 5 days ago

Somewhat yes

[–] ShadowRam@fedia.io 4 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Yeah, that was my thought too...

If they want to defend their country, even in victory... years of farmers and their families getting maimed and killed.

[–] Successful_Try543@feddit.org 14 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Proper mines destroy themselves after a fixed period of time.

[–] ShadowRam@fedia.io 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

perhaps.. someone said a 'battery' runs out...

I'm assuming they are loaded with high-order explosive, so a random foot or cultivating machine 'shouldn't' set it off..

Still I'd be hesitant,

even their own troops could walk into it by accident,

[–] Successful_Try543@feddit.org 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I only know of the AT2 anti vehicle mines from Bundeswehr. They disarm after an adjustable period of time, between 3 and 96 hours, by self detonation.

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 5 points 6 days ago

Sadly the better option than genocide.

[–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 days ago

Well, if they don't get that victory, they won't have to worry about those farmers...

[–] Kissaki@feddit.org 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

For example, US allies Ukraine and Finland have recently signaled they might withdraw from the treaty out of military necessity.

src (2014)

They say it's a matter of necessity. And it seems withdrawal from the treaty is an option.

/edit: Another source from Wikipedia:

Russian forces have widely utilized antipersonnel mines since their full invasion of Ukraine commenced on February 24, 2022.

The Monitor also reports the use of antipersonnel mines by Ukrainian government forces in and around the city of Izium in 2022 when the city was under Russian control. Ukraine is bound by the Mine Ban Treaty.

They've already been using them.

[–] Besen@feddit.org 1 points 4 days ago
[–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

ITT: couch experts worrying about conventions and ethics while the people in question are literally fighting for their lives

Landmines kill innocent people decades after the conflicts they were deployed in are over. So yeah, it's fighting for their lives, too

[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca -3 points 6 days ago

Jesus, what were they giving them before? Sticks and stones?

[–] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org -1 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Just to remind you: Landmines are considered a war crime and should never be used. That is because they mostly do damage in the long-term, similar to nuclear fallout.

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Landmines are considered a war crime and should never be used.

They're not though.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Maybe my memory is inaccurate

[–] Skua@kbin.earth 2 points 4 days ago

The Ottawa Treaty attempted to get rid of them, but it's essentially just a voluntary thing. Ukraine did sign up to it, but many of the world's major military powers did not. Unfortunately Russia is among those that didn't. Since Russia is mining the front anyway, there's little benefit to Ukraine not doing so

There is a small silver lining here - or a less dark patch of the cloud, maybe - in that modern mines are designed to make themselves inert or self destruct after a few weeks or months

[–] misk@sopuli.xyz 4 points 6 days ago

War of aggression is a war crime, as are many things. Who’s going to uphold the law though?

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net -3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Great, more war crimes and decades of demining after the war...

[–] Maestro@fedia.io 15 points 6 days ago

These mines are battery-powered, and when it runs out, the mine cannot trigger. So demining is easier at least...