Metaphor: ReFantazio's success is further proof that politics are good in videogames, actually—no matter what reactionaries tell you : games

[–] HollowNaught@lemmy.world 19 points 6 days ago

Politics are irrelevant

Good writing is good and bad writing is bad

[–] Nexy@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Politics is not actual politics, its not normative womans, gays and trans people. Metaphor its ok because don't have any of those (I'm only 20hs in)

I can't explain why no one talks about baldur 3. I suppose its too complex for those people.

[–] Sylvartas@lemmy.world 12 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

its not normative womans, gays and trans people.

Not broad enough. When "gamers" say that something is political, what they mean is that it contains politics they disagree with. The ones you cited just happen to be the things they easily recognize because their favorite right wing grifter is raging about them 24/7.
As you also said, they usually don't have the media literacy required to recognize more subtle political messages, which can be pretty funny. I remember when Disco Elysium was first released and they were very confused because it contains some actual, pretty deep political reflections

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago

[+] Lewdiculous@reddthat.com -7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Ah, yes, of course... It had to be PC Gamer with this take.

Just make good games and and focus on that, the push to shove politics and activism into everything has everyone tired and burned out. It just builds skepticism from the wider gaming audience.

Massive props to Refantazio, honestly a very good game.

[+] vasus@lemmy.world -23 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

The rightwing/gamergate side not contesting this whole issue being called "Politics in videogames" is the biggest blunder. I don't know the best way to call this phenomenon (political preaching?) but surely there is a better phrase. Right now you can't talk about this stuff without getting hit by "Oh, you claim to hate politics in videogames yet you love Bioshock" type retort, when the actual thing people have problems with are californian nutcases pushing their views on US political crap onto the player as if it were gospel.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 17 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What is wrong with Californian views on identity politics, when it’s not just bad writing? Is it the acknowledgement of people that are gender nonbinary?

[+] vasus@lemmy.world -15 points 6 days ago (4 children)

I just dislike a lot of the studios based there (Insomniac, naughty dog, ubisoft) for how hard they try to push POC/minority representation in their games. Especially when it doesn't make sense (black samurai)

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Naughty Dog’s most famous games (containing humans) are based around white male leads. It’s basically just Uncharted Lost Legacy and TLOU2 that have diverged from that, and not by very much.

Literally the only game of Insomniac’s I can find (outside of anthropomorphic games like Ratchet&Clank) that even leans to minorities is Spider-Man: Miles Morales, which is based on a comic character that was already popular. Even the games based around Peter were going to acknowledge he’s the type of person to work at food banks and embrace New York’s diversity; that’s the pre-existing character.

Nobody complained when Assassin’s Creed had Leonardo da Vinci hand you a tank or a glider, or a female Spartan mysthios fight mythical gods, or have London gang runners that fight in hoods from rooftops. Assassin’s Creed has always ventured into the unrealistically cinematic extensions of common historical myths, and they’re not even the first to turn Yasuke into a samurai. Netflix put out an animated series on that a while back and it was awesome.

I do not expect an answer, but I genuinely think you should quietly ask yourself the question: Are you a racist?

[+] vasus@lemmy.world -7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I'm thinking of three games specifically from these studios, TLOU2 basing the whole narrative around a woman hulk, spiderman 2 with the long story segments as Mary jane and the whole debacle on Yasuke. But yeah it's not just these three california studios that are putting out games with this stuff, they are just the first that come to mind.

Nobody complained when Assassin’s Creed had Leonardo da Vinci hand you a tank or a glider

Yeah fair enough, people will have different lines in the sand for this stuff. I get that this series has time travel and aliens and whatever, but I think everyone can agree that if they randomly put, for example, modern sportscars into a historical setting it would be too unbelievable and ruin immersion. A massive black samurai slaughtering asians in feudal japan (and then seeing them bow down to him in another scene) has that effect for me.

(For the record I did look up on primary sources from japanese historians and everything points to the man being just Nobunaga's pet curiosity. It helps that here's all the shady stuff going on where the english and japanese versions of Thomas Lockley's books say different things)

Are you a racist?

I am not. I just dislike when developers sacrifice the game's story, quality or whatever in order to put in representation. I don't understand why the story can't just have a diverse cast and be done with it, right now it feels like all these studios are focusing on diversity first and foremost as a major selling point when it should be just a normal thing that doesn't need to be highlighted

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

No matter how many times I reread this comment, I don't see how this reasoning would convince anyone - including yourself - of its position. The point about translation, for instance, not only feels like a non-sequitor but ignores the wealth of subjectivity that inherently goes into translating text to other languages.

I'm not trying to reject you just out of spite; I genuinely don't think internet arguments like this are ever "winnable" for anyone. If you come up with a better description for what it is you oppose, feel free to mention it, but otherwise, I'd say do some self-reflecting.

[–] vasus@lemmy.world -3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The point about translation, for instance

I want to touch up on this. The reason I didn't write much about my claim about for Yasuke not being a proper samurai is because it is my understanding that it is the default position and thus doesn't need to be proven by evidence. But if I was asked to provide evidence, I would link the comparison of his translated and untranslated book in this post. Since Thomas Lockley is the main source behind the myth, I think discrediting his book should be enough to also discredit Yasuke's role as a proper samurai.

[–] Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com 6 points 6 days ago

We acknowledge that the game is a work of fiction. Historical fiction, but fiction none-the-less.

If every fifth character is also black, I think there is a point that can be made about verisimilitude and taking liberties; but since we know he really existed and that there has been debate on what he did, having a work of fiction that portrays him as a samurai under Nobunga doesn't seem unreasonable.

To compare, we know that Leonardo Di Vinci didn't hand out guns to people or build functional flying machines - but we know he designed all sorts of stuff ahead of its time, so it kinda fits in a fictional story with him in.

But only one of those seems to draw huge amounts of complaints online... And it's actually the less historically accurate one.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago (3 children)

The lead developer of Assassin's Creed: Shadows is in Quebec. And does it not matter that it's based on a historical figure? Consider also that in California, you're just more likely to encounter a diverse group of people, so wouldn't that just be representing the world around them?

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[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

This made my dick black and gay and now it lives in Palo Alto.

[–] Randomguy@lemm.ee 4 points 5 days ago (3 children)

The black samurai is literally a historical figure. What do you mean "it doesn't make sense"?

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[–] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 38 points 1 week ago (1 children)

No, I don't think it's as simple as that. Politics are good in games when done right, but they can also be nothing more than a distraction when the narrative has huge errors or lacks and depth in general.

[–] Renacles@lemmy.world 40 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I mean, yeah, good writing is good and bad writing is bad.

I think the article is going against the idea that politics should be kept away from games.

[+] PunchingWood@lemmy.world -16 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Politics in games isn't the issue.

It's the concept of pushing real world politics in games that is the problem.

Sometimes they can overlap, but they needn't to. Some things are just obviously pushing the agendas of developers, instead of making it feel like a legit part of the game universe.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 20 points 6 days ago

I don't really get this sentiment.

Elves being racist towards dwarves is acceptable in a game, but white humans being racist towards hispanic humans is "pushing agendas"?

I fault Bioware for a lot of things, but failing to invent a fantasy equivalent of the concept of gender is not one of them. Not everything needs to be moved to an otherworldly analogy just to avoid hurting the feelings of bigots.

[–] wrekone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Games are not a fundamental right. Artists should make art that reflects their values.

[–] Resand@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Sure, but I'm not required to buy that art

[–] wrekone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Exactly. Instead of complaining about polictics in gaming, just spend your money elsewhere if you don't like it.

[–] Boiglenoight@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

This isn’t right either. Inserting politics into anything serves that that up for discourse, and getting people discussing and thinking critically about a topic is a fantastic achievement for any medium that delves into the subject.

It’s when partisan messages about politics are inserted into a game that poses problems. Instead, video games should explore as many takes on an issue as capable in service to the story being told. Wow, it’s terrible that the horned people are aholes to the perfectly normal looking people, but how did that come to be? Is there any historical precedent where the shoe was on the other foot? I think of Jews and how 70 years ago they were facing extermination at the hands of Germans find themselves now in the position of the exterminator. How did that happen? That’s great material for exploring politics in games, to me.

[–] Resand@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago

And then it becomes "game is failing due to being boycotted by incels" Won't anyone think about the profit margins

[–] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

Not required to what by that art?

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago

Not just in games, but often times the point of the story's fake politics is to be a parable for real politics. But that's also the fun of it, even if you disagree with the story's intended message.

[–] november@lemmy.vg 2 points 5 days ago

What do you mean by "real world politics"? Don't be shy, tell us.

[–] Bananobanza@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes politics are great in videogames, if the writers don't share just 1 braincell like with many current AAA(A) games.

You'd think it's common knowledge, yet they still churn out these depthless, one dimensional millenial writing slop.

[–] BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 15 points 6 days ago

Politics in video games used to be: metal gear solid.

Politics in video games now is: is that a grill protagonist in my vydia game?

[–] misk@sopuli.xyz 15 points 1 week ago

I understand that half of the world is currently healing psychological trauma from the US election results but Atlus has been commenting on politics in their games for much longer.

[–] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago

Well, there's politics... and there's politics.

[–] Boiglenoight@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Games have a large male audience and many of those males are white. When new games focus on protagonists and issues that do not resonate with white males, this aggravates the audience and it only takes a few vocal few to whip the group into toxic online behavior.

Metaphor is set in a fantasy world populated by Japanese. The characters may seem to be of a multiracial society, but it’s understood that this is not a western game but an eastern one through a western lens. It could have the most radical political discourse but as players we quietly accept that this is a foreign story and not one that reflects on western issues and prejudices.

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