this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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United States | News & Politics

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The "spoiler" candidate (tankie.tube)
submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by Confidant6198@lemmy.ml to c/usa@lemmy.ml
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[–] hemmes@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Okay, had to do some digging in the Tankie Tube tags. :smh:

This is Claudia De la Cruz, a prominent community organizer that appears to be rallying for support of a third party.

From her website votesocialist2024.com: “Claudia De la Cruz and Karina Garcia are running for President and Vice-President as the candidates of the Party for Socialism and Liberation.”

Well yeah, that’s sounds great. But here’s the problem with that; the USA is a two-party system. You can either vote for the Democratic Party or the Republican Party, there’s an Independent party but that’s irrelevant here. If Claudia wanted to make real change she wouldn’t be “the ‘spoiler’ candidate”, she would fight and lobby for ranked choice voting so that constituents could actually vote for a third and fourth party. Instead, she’s chosen the vain path of US presidency, a place she’s destined to fail.

Luckily her geographical influence appears localized in NY. Because if she was making any real waves, like in swing states, it would only hurt democrats at the poles, which is why this is some seriously dumb shit to be pulling in one of the most crucial presidential elections in modern history.

You want to make change, get better representation? You need to change the system first. Running for president in a third party isn’t going to do shit and everyone knows that. Maybe it’s all for the campaign dollars.

Hey OP, if you really give a shit about this “movement” maybe explain what your 1:30 quick-cut clip of some random rally is about.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Well yeah, that’s sounds great. But here’s the problem with that; the USA is a two-party system. You can either vote for the Democratic Party or the Republican Party, there’s an Independent party but that’s irrelevant here. If Claudia wanted to make real change she wouldn’t be “the ‘spoiler’ candidate”, she would fight and lobby for ranked choice voting so that constituents could actually vote for a third and fourth party. Instead, she’s chosen the vain path of US presidency, a place she’s destined to fail.

You can read PSL's Party Platform, they are Marxists and thud revolutionary. They don't believe they can win electorally, the point of running is to delegitimize the electoral system and advertise their party platform. They organize and grow year round, not just electorally. She isn't a spoiler candidate, because people voting for her would not vote for the Dems otherwise, they would vote for a different third party or abstain.

Secondly, the idea that Ranked Choice Voting would fix things is ridiculous. Not only is it not enough in any way, but it is also treated like a solution either party wants, which is false. There are small pockets with RCV allowed in states with little to no say. Additionally, there is no way to push either party to adopt RCV.

You want to make change, get better representation? You need to change the system first. Running for president in a third party isn’t going to do shit and everyone knows that. Maybe it’s all for the campaign dollars.

It's to delegitimize the electoral system and to advertise the party and party platform, PSL organizes year round, campaigns are generally the least of their worries.

[–] hemmes@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

people voting for her would not vote for the Dems otherwise, they would vote for a different third party or abstain

That’s just stupid. I doubt supporters would rather Trump win, and by not voting Democrat that’s exactly what those people are helping. You are straight up helping Trump become president. Period.

Sure, keep up the grassroots movement, but fucking vote Dem, Jesus Christ. To throw your votes away like that is selfish and will only hurt your movement. You think you guys will have a better time getting your ideas across with a Trump presidency? You need to coalesce with another stronger party to be seen or heard. You think PSL is unique in any way? Alternative parties like PSL have come and gone for years because they have no strategy - you know, like thinking RCV is “ridiculous”. Look at the Forward Party, for example, for some not-so-ridiculous ideas that can give third parties a fighting chance.

It's to delegitimize the electoral system and to advertise the party and party platform, PSL organizes year round, campaigns are generally the least of their worries.

Sounds delightful. But since it’s almost, you know, fucking November, can PSL leaders remind their constituents to vote Dem or we're all fucked? Because, right now in the world we live in today, that’s how it works. If Trump returns to the office, you’re damn right campaigning will be the very least of their worries.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That’s just stupid. I doubt supporters would rather Trump win, and by not voting Democrat that’s exactly what those people are helping. You are straight up helping Trump become president. Period.

The Dems are helping Trump win by being genocidal. Leftists aren't going to vote for right-wing genocidal Imperialists, Claudia De La Crúz isn't a spoiler.

Sure, keep up the grassroots movement, but fucking vote Dem, Jesus Christ. To throw your votes away like that is selfish and will only hurt your movement. You think you guys will have a better time getting your ideas across with a Trump presidency? You need to coalesce with another stronger party to be seen or heard. You think PSL is unique in any way? Alternative parties like PSL have come and gone for years because they have no strategy - you know, like thinking RCV is “ridiculous”. Look at the Forward Party, for example, for some not-so-ridiculous ideas that can give third parties a fighting chance.

What "stronger party" do Leftists have to work with? There's only PSL.

Sounds delightful. But since it’s almost, you know, fucking November, can PSL leaders remind their constituents to vote Dem or we're all fucked? Because, right now in the world we live in today, that’s how it works. If Trump returns to the office, you’re damn right campaigning will be the very least of their worries.

Why would they? They want people to abandon the Dems and the Reps, both are equally dangerous to Communists.

[–] hemmes@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You must be young - to be promoting communism, so misguided.

What "stronger party" do Leftists have to work with?

The democrats, Dopey.

This idea that you can have a communist government that truly works for the people is a farce. It ignores who we are as a people. The only way is capitalism with strong social programs. Representatives like AOC are the ones standing up for real viable change, not PSL.

If the constituents supporting PSL would get off their high horse and help us get majority power over congress you would see meaningful change.

But, no. Let’s promote fucking communism. You are truly lost.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

You must be young - to be promoting communism, so misguided.

You must be young - to be denouncing communism, so misguided.

The democrats, Dopey.

The Democrats are a far-right genocidal imperialist party, why would you think they are left?

This idea that you can have a communist government that truly works for the people is a farce. It ignores who we are as a people. The only way is capitalism with strong social programs. Representatives like AOC are the ones standing up for real viable change, not PSL.

That's a fantasy. Capitalism with strong social programs still depends on Imperialism, and sees sliding worker protections. Capitalism is inherently unsustainable, it's already a farce to pretend it isn't. AOC hasn't made real, viable change.

If the constituents supporting PSL would get off their high horse and help us get majority power over congress you would see meaningful change.

Impossible to do, for one, and for two, the Democrats stand for Imperialism and Capitalism, that's never going to happen.

You are extremely condescending for someone who believes in utter fantasy. I'd like you to explain what you mean by denouncing Communism, you don't have any points thus far, just gestures.

But, no. Let’s promote fucking communism. You are truly lost.

Please, elaborate. Explain what's wrong with Communism and why you support a brutal, dying Empire that is only ever getting worse over time.

[–] hemmes@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Bro, you’re a commie of course I’m condescending.

[Socialist programs are] a fantasy

I guess we’re living in a fantasy: States:

  1. Social Security
  2. Medicare
  3. Medicaid
  4. Public Education
  5. The Affordable Care Act (ACA)
  6. Unemployment Insurance
  7. SNAP
  8. Not to mention Minimum Wage

The only thing PSL will disenfranchise are programs like those.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Bro, you’re a commie of course I’m condescending.

And yet you can't explain any of your points, or explain why you aren't a Communist. Peak liberalism.

I guess we’re living in a fantasy: States:

  1. Social Security - One of the higher retirement ages

  2. Medicare - single payer is cheaper

  3. Medicaid - single payer is cheaper

  4. Public Education - woefully underfunded and college isn't free

  5. The Affordable Care Act (ACA) - single payer is cheaper

  6. Unemployment Insurance - pathetically small

  7. SNAP - pathetically small

  8. Not to mention Minimum Wage - pathetically small

You have no points, just gestures. Social Programs aren't socialism, you have no plan, just sticking with a sinking ship and trying to pretend there aren't gaping holes in the hull.

Explain exactly why you aren't a Communist, if my being a Communist is enough for you to start malding. You're on a site made by Communists, lol

[–] hemmes@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I have zero idea what this clip is about

[–] OprahsedCreature@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You should watch the clip then

[–] hemmes@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I did lol

What movement are they talking about, who is that woman? There’s zero context.

[–] OprahsedCreature@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Ah, troll, gotcha. Shouldn't have expected a serious conversation with can honest actor, that's on me.

[–] hemmes@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Dude, I literally do not know what this is about and I’m asking. Who is this person and what is this clip about?

The title says The “spoiler” candidate, then the clip of the lady saying she’s all about spoiling shit that sucks, which I agree with, but who the fuck is she and what is she talking about, where is this rally? Is she a presidential candidate, running for another office?

Zero context, I’d like to know more and that’s somehow a troll to you?

It sounds like you’re really passionate about this, maybe you should explain to people what it’s about.