Fediverse

Decentralisation and having multiple instances isn't even that much of an issue. 99.999% of all Twitter refugees were railroaded to Mastodon and what seems like 99% of these straight to mastodon.social. They genuinely thought mastodon.social was "the Mastodon website", just like twitter.com was the Twitter website. It took many of them months to even notice that Mastodon is decentralised. And it took some of them even longer to notice that the Fediverse is, in fact, more than just Mastodon while half of them think that Fediverse = Mastodon after almost two years.

No, the biggest issue is: What they were looking for was not something radically different from Twitter, now that Twitter sucked. They were looking for a Twitter without Musk. Like, a drop-in replacement that doesn't require them to adjust in any way. A 1:1, 100% identical clone of Twitter how it was the day before Musk took over with the same UI and the same UX and the same culture.

When they were railroaded to mastodon.social, they were told that Mastodon is "literally Twitter without Musk". And they took it as literally. By face value. And then they ended up on something that looked and felt nothing like Twitter. No matter how many of Twitter's limitations Gargron arbitrarily and unnecessarily implemented into Mastodon, he never got close enough to Twitter itself.

People would stick around because Mastodon felt like the only alternative to Twitter there was. Of course, they kept using Mastodon exactly like Twitter, not adopting to Mastodon's culture and relying on their toots being delivered to people by an algorithm that Mastodon simply doesn't have. Hashtag? Fuck hashtags, I didn't need no hashtags on Twitter, so I ain't gonna use none on Mastodon. And then they wondered why so few people discovered them and their content.

They didn't want to adapt. They were waiting for Mastodon to finally "fix the bugs" that made it different from Twitter. Which it didn't.

Instead, Mastodon developed its own culture (which is a story of its own). And they were pressured to adopt Mastodon's culture. CWs for sensitive content for any definition of "sensitive". Twitter ain't got no CW field. Alt-texts for all images, and it had to be actually useful and informative. They ain't never done no alt-texts on Twitter. Of course, the right hashtags. See above.

Also, Mastodon-the-app is lack-lustre. Whereas the official apps for just about everything else are fully-featured, the Mastodon mobile app is only there for there to be a mobile app named "Mastodon" for those people who join a new online service by grabbing their iPhones and loading the app with the same name as the service from the App Store. Especially newbies often can't wrap their minds around using an online service with an app that doesn't have the same name. But the official Mastodon app is actually just about the worst Mastodon app out there. At the same time, for many Mastodon users, this app IS Mastodon. They've never seen the Web interface. What the app can't do, Mastodon can't do.

Lastly, Mastodon was probably also way too techy. Like, you had people talking about Linux and Open Source and Web design and whatnot all over the place, something that they themselves knew nothing about and weren't interested in. On top came those people with their weird-looking monster posts that said the Fediverse is not only Mastodon, and they were posting from something that is not and has never even been affiliated with Mastodon.

And then Bluesky came along. And Bluesky looked exactly like what they've been wanting all the time: a 1:1 Twitter clone. One big reason for Bluesky's success is that it shamelessly ripped off the UI of immediately-pre-Musk-takeover Twitter, both the website and the mobile app. A fully-featured, well-polished mobile app with all the same features as the website. And at first glance, it feels like the same monolithic walled-garden silo as Twitter with the same kinds of users as Twitter, minus the Nazis. At least not as ripe with übergeeks as Mastodon.

Also, Bluesky grew faster and quickly had more users than Mastodon. Which sounded like more followers in less time. Exactly what all those famewhores that brag about their Twitter follower counts were craving.

People wanted a pre-Musk Twitter clone. Mastodon isn't one. Everything else in the Fediverse is one even less. Bluesky is just that. Bluesky is what people had wanted all the time.

I'll throw my -opinion- in the ring here because no one else is saying it the same way.

• Echoing what other people said, finding a server was hard especially as at the time I thought defederating seemed stupid (changed my mind somewhat now that I use Lemmy). Then once signed up discovery was/is a pain. How do I find good accounts when they aren't synced with the instance I am on? Fuck if I know, I never found an equivalent to lemmyverse.net for mastodon.
• Now into the big problem I had: federation was a pain. It was my first interaction with a federated service that isn't email and it was confusing and annoying. Finally find an account you like? Well you either can't see any of their posts or the few you can have 1 reply and 5 likes. Eventually you realise you have to click onto the account's instance to see everything and they have 100 replies and 500 likes (made-up numbers, obviously) but guess what you can't interact with any of them because you are no longer on your instance. It basically forced me to browse logged out for 99% of my browsing, constantly following links between websites. I have not had quite the same trouble with Lemmy because despite having some similar problems, it has been a LOT quicker to sync especially once you point your instance to another.
• The lack of algorithm or fine control of my feed was off-putting. I still hate that Facebook and other platforms make it hard or impossible to sort chronologically, but having only chronological makes for a potential to miss out on massive amounts of stuff.
• And on a personal note, I think I'm just falling out of favour with the idea of a microblogging platform with strangers. If my friends used it things might be different.

I did try out Firefish and enjoyed that way more as it had a fun and engaging UI and lots of extra features, but it holds the same federation and discovery issues.

i posted in another thread how i think content discovery stinks on mastodon. bluesky is much better at it. mastodon feeds are a wall of noise

Personally, I just don't enjoy that Twitter-like format. I never used Twitter so I find it... Awkward? To me its kinda like a platformer with bad controls, everything else about the game might be great but if it doesnt feel satisfying to play, I'll skip.

I still have my account and Megalodon on my phone but I just can't get into it.

Mastodon has a horrible UI and UX, at least in my opinion. I've found Misskey and its forks to be better.

i have a mastodon account but it’s completely useless for me.

the only thing i use twitter for is to follow updates and news from professional journalists and artists who are not on mastodon and likely will never be. if your job depends on twitter, switching to mastodon is not going to happen.

if i want to engage with random average people, i come here to lemmy.

I agree with top comment.

I'm Indonesian. Most of trending fediverse are Western related topics which It's not relevant to me.

There's one time when I randomly post about my country politics, and people on Mastodon just assume or comment using Western mindset.

Other than this Lemmy account, I mostly stick with hobby-related fediverse that mostly East Asian and Southeast Asian people (mostly Misskey instance)

Also, Indonesian is currently the highest user on Twitter, recently bypassed Brazil. People still use it as our local feed is... well localized. No Western-related discussion and much more comfy.

mastodon + opt in to bridgyfed is the way

Mastodon is not struggling.

1. Mastodon is not a single entity, if mastodon.art dies tomorrow I would just create a new Mastodon profile on another instance.
2. Yeah, Mastodon use surged in 2022 and 2023, and yeah most users didn't stay around, but compared to the numbers before 2022, Mastodon has s big bump of new users.

Looking at two surges of new users seeing the vast majority not stick around and missing that a sizable chunk still stayed is missing the point.

This article would never have been written if the user increase didn't have temporary surges, that result would be the same number of users, but less brand recognition.

Mastodon is also not driven by the same kind of metrics as a centralized system, plenty of people can just run their own instance just for the fun of it, they don't need constant growth.

So calm down, and take it slow.

Don't sell Mastodon short.

I have an account that I use to read, but I've never posted on Mastodon. Decided to tweet after seeing this post and I see a privacy option called "Quiet Public - Fewer Algorithmic Fanfares".

Seriously, wtf is this? What does that even mean? If techie people like me can't figure out Mastodon then you can't expect the general public to do that. I'm not blaming this feature in particular, but Mastodon is quirky in all the wrong ways.

I have a mastodon account, I still check it occasionally and I've tried making it work a year ago, being active on it and following either people or hashtags. I also tried other networks like bsky and cara, or mastodon through kbin integration. None of them really worked out.

I didn't have an issue with the technical side as much as with the community and its mentality. They all have this persecution complex where everyone is out to get them and destroy their way of living. They simultaneously claim it's better and more morally superior than twitter while also responding to any questions or feedback with "if you don't like it GTFO". Most of the posts I've seen on mastodon seemed masturbatory and/or talking about other social networks and why are they bad than why is mastodon actually good. In many ways it was more toxic and negative than my carefully curated twitter feed. There's also as much doom and gloom as on twitter, if not more, when it comes to politics (or at least, it's harder to hide it).

The content in general was bad and boring but I don't know if this is because of the type of people that are on it or just because the lack of algorithm means I will see any random person's ramblings next to the biggest breaking news that I'm actually interested in. There is a lack of innovation in this area and it makes discoverability and content curation terrible, I don't need an algorithm to read my mind but at the very least I wish it could separate trash from actual popular topics.

I found some interesting niches when it comes to FOSS developers and tech but I found next to no actual game devs, artists or content creators on it and even the usual "copy content from twitter" bots were unreliable and uncommon.

TL;DR Mastodon seems very very niche and is not currently viable as a general replacement for other social networks, and IMHO due to the community culture there it's never going to grow into anything else either.

I tried to replace Twitter by Mastodon but, in the end, I just left Twitter and don’t use Mastodon at all. The main reason I think is because the « onboarding » is painful. I never succeeded to find interesting people to follow. I faced many ghost accounts from people posting once a month or stopped a few years ago.

If you don’t find people by yourself, no one is going to see your posts and so, you won’t be able to find new people to follow by posting.

I don’t like what Twitter became, but the base principle of the algorithm (before it became X with the paid subscriptions) was working great for me. I was constantly adding new people to the mix, and removing inactive ones every month.

If I struggled this much with Mastodon, I am not surprised many people create an account and leave a few days / weeks later.

Let's see:

Network effect hits Mastodon specially hard as it competes not just with Twitter, but also Threads and Bluesky. In those situations, a smaller userbase means that people will outright ignore you as an option.

The way that federation was implemented; as linearchaos mentioned in another thread, if you settle in a smaller instance (the "right" thing to do), you won't get "good collections of off node traffic". So it creates a situation where, if you know how federation works you'll avoid big instances, and worsen your own experience; and if you don't, well, Mastodon's big selling point goes down the drain.

Federation itself introduces a complexity cost. That's unavoidable and the benefits of federation outweigh the cost by far; however, the cost is concrete while the bigger benefit is far more abstract.

Branding issues. Other users already mentioned it, but you don't sell a novel tech named after an extinct animal.

And this is just conjecture from my part, but I think that microblogging is becoming less popular than it used to be; people who like short content would rather go watch a TikTok video, and people who want well-thought content already would rather read a "proper" blog instead.

On a lighter side: the very fact that we're using the ActivityPub now helps Mastodon, even if we're in different platforms (like Lemmy, MBin, PieFed, SubLinks). Due to how federation works, you're bound to see someone in Mastodon sharing content with those forums and vice versa; it could be a bit less clunky but it's still more content for both sides.

On the text: I think that the author reached the right conclusion through the wrong reasoning. The activity peaks don't matter that much, when there's a huge influx of users you're bound to see some leaving five minutes later. The reason why Mastodon is struggling is this:

Source of the data.

See those slopes down? They show that the stable userbase is shrinking. Even users engaged enough with the platform are slowly leaving, but newbies who could fill their place aren't popping up.

Honestly my biggest issue is getting randomly banned from trans spaces for expressing my own lived experience with surgery and how I view my own body and gender. They're so "inclusive" that they start excluding people that don't use their very specific language or share their beliefs exactly. They keep kicking people out then wondering where all the people went!

I personally didn't like mastodon's UI style, I found it tedious to use and more complicated then needed.

There's no real similar product(at least out of what I've used) so nothing to run muscle memory on, and it deep dived into federation to the point it was confusing too confusing to figure out

Mastodon is just like Threads : a hype , wait for the hype to end and you'll see that it doesn't offer something that would impress an ordinary person who isn't a nerd or tech savvy enough to continue using it... What I'll say now is more like random thoughts about federation and it applies to any federated service but this post inspired my thoughts so ...

The two best features I can think of for Mastodon are :

• Open source: an excellent thing but it's probably not important for an ordinary person who still uses the products of big companies just because they are "convenient" and "common" even when his data is the cost
• federated: although it provides freedom to choose where you want to join, it creates a lot of confusion and inconvenience as well : I personally have somewhat specific interests and I usually tend to avoid public instances dedicated to "everything", however, every time I decided to join a federated service I got the same confusion : "which instance should I choose?" , I had two accounts on Mastodon before I deleted one of them ( and I'll probably delete the other soon ) and I felt this confusion the two times I created an account, I have two accounts on Lemmy and I felt this confusion the two times I created an account, one account on Peertube and it's the same ( this was the most difficult of them honestly because Peertube's filters are very bad and whenever I could find an instance that I considered good, it turns out that registration is closed, or needs approval), the same confusion also happened when I created an account on Kbin/Mbin , the same on Pixelfeed , the same when I searched for an instance of friendica and it will be the same when I think in the future to repeat the experience on any other federated service... Now, someone may come and say the famous sentence "it doesn't matter which instance you choose, at the end you can follow anything from any instance" and honestly this sentence is a pure myth imho because .. first : when you register an account in an instance, you will constantly notice the "local" section, which shows you what's happening on the instance you are in , and it'll form part of your experience in the instance depending on the instance itself and people on this instance , also , let's suppose that a large number of annoying users existed on a popular instance and the moderation of this instance couldn't solve the problem ( or didn't do anything about this in the first place) , what might happen is that moderation of other instances might decide to defederate with this instance, and this might affect an ordinary user who has done nothing but joined the instance - and any other person who isn't annoying but but ended up on this instance -, I know that this point is unreal currently but it might be real one day especially that some instances are known for not being tolerated with specific behaviors
• Another confusion that might happen ... I'll explain it with my own experience : when I was still using my first Mastodon account, I left the account for a few months and then decided to return ... but guess what happened ? I forgot which instance I signed up for in the first place ! fortunately, after two attempts in two different instances, I found the solution : I searched on a random instance for my Account (I still remember the username ) and was able to find it ... I was lucky in this, but I can't guarantee that everyone will be as lucky as me and will find a way to remember ( this is both a good and bad point for the federation , on the one hand I forgot where I registered because the instances are similar , and on the other hand I found the instance which I registered in using another instance )

I kind of don’t want it to succeed to the level of Twitter. All the people I like on Mastodon are there now and the trolls and chuds are mostly staying away because they don’t get the attention of millions of eyeballs.

Same reason i don't use Twitter, I'm not a narcissist.

Because Threads and BlueSky form effective competition with Twitter.

Also, short form content with just a few sentences per post sucks. It's become obvious. That Twitter was mostly algorithm hype and FOMO.

Mastodon tries to be healthier but I'm not convinced that microblogs in general are that useful, especially to a techie audience who knows RSS and other publishing formats.