this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2024
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Explain Like I'm Five

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[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

the man made all of his money through debt maxing and then defaulting, dude is a conman, nothing else to it.

That and the apprentice, those are the only way he has ever gotten money.

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[–] SSJMarx@lemm.ee 9 points 6 hours ago

So most billionaires have most of their wealth in stuff like stocks. They can theoretically sell the stocks to turn them into money, and then buy things, but they have so much stock and the things they want to buy are worth so much money that it's easier and cheaper just to get a loan and spend that instead.

The thing is, Trump has been abusing creditors for his entire long life. Most banks like most billionaires because they make their payments on time, but Trump has not paid many, many people in his life, so much so that most major banks no longer do business with him, and haven't since the 80s.

This is when Trump got involved with the Russian mob. They were willing to extend credit to him when no one else was, hypothetically because he was part of their money laundering operation. Regardless, Trump's access to liquid wealth contracted over this period, and by the 2010s people were speculating that he wasn't even a billionaire anymore.

So his revenue stream changed. He went from directly profiting from real estate and investments to, after many high profile failures, licensing his brand and selling himself. He had always been a bit of a celebrity, but this is when he started making money like one.

From there, shilling out ugly sneakers, overpriced trading cards/NFTs, and other crap basically became inevitable. His recent legal costs have only accelerated the process because he needs money now.

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 21 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Rule number one of being rich; don't spend your own money.

[–] Johnmannesca@lemmy.world 7 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Is rule number two to never let them see you broke?

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Umm... Isn't that what Amazon does at a global scale?

[–] Azzu@lemm.ee 27 points 16 hours ago

One thing that people didn't mention yet: this is the behavior that made him (stay) a billionaire. You don't get to be one by being nice and non-exploitative.

[–] walter_wiggles@lemmy.nz 20 points 1 day ago (1 children)

He has to create opportunity for foreign actors to funnel money to him.

It's not illegal to sell a $1,000 watch for $100,000. That way he doesn't have to actually launder the money.

I have 4 unrelated email addresses on 4 separate domains and I get solicited for Trump Wine at least once a month on all of them. His spam game is on point.

[–] Makeitstop@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Trump has a lot of wealth on paper, but a lot of it is tied up in real estate, which isn't the easiest thing to turn into cash when you need it. And a lot is tied up in stock, but since he got caught fixing the books for the Trump Organization, he can't really use that as his personal piggybank without a lot of scrutiny. And Truth Social is worth over a billion on paper but will crash if he starts to sell any of his stock, which would cause a lot of new problems right now.

Meanwhile, he is burning through money at an insane rate. I mean historically, he's lost far more money than he's ever been worth. He's always had to have new businesses and schemes to cycle through as the old ones crumble. He basically never made a profit until the Apprentice, and that actually caused problems because he'd structured his operations around losing money, leaving other people holding the bag when things go completely south, writing off the loses for tax purposes, and, well, cooking the books.

But with hundreds of millions in judgements against him, on top of the hundred million plus in legal fees, he's in a bit of a bind. He already had to put a $175 million up for bond to appeal the judgment civil judgment against the Trump Organization. If he loses the appeal, he's out not just the $175 million, but the full $489 million judgement, plus about $115k a day in interest. Plus he's got the E Jean Carroll judgments and ongoing cases because he's a dumb bastard that can't stop himself from committing defamation every time he leaves a courthouse after losing a defamation case.

While he has been funneling money from his PAC to cover his legal bills that only goes so far, and as I understand it, he can't use that for actual judgements against him. If he loses the election, he may be fighting legal battles for years to come, that PAC money will likely dry up, and if he doesn't have the cash when the court demands it, he could see his assets seized and auctioned off. If he wins the election, he can do basically anything and we're all fucked.

So to simplify this a bit, imagine that he spent almost all his money on a lot of properties without getting a single monopoly, while his opponent has hotels on the dark blue and green properties. He keeps trying to survive the gauntlet and pass go to stay in the game, and maybe he can survive by mortgaging everything, but it's much easier for him if he has the cash to pay the bill.

[–] zcd@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 day ago

That's his schtick, he's actually just a billionaire cosplayer

[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Being paid is a kind of attention/validation. The things he's selling are "branding" stuff that feed into his cult of personality. It's probably more of a narcissist thing than a money thing.

[–] SacralPlexus@lemmy.world 162 points 1 day ago (4 children)

A lot of his value is tied up in assets that aren’t liquid (real estate). Also he is probably not worth as much as he says.

But the main reason is that these “cheap crap” things you mention are probably vehicles for money laundering from foreign actors. The best example are the NFTs he was hawking for awhile. Costs next to nothing to make and foreign states can buy a ton of them to give him money without it being easy to detect. Even if it is detected it is still legal to buy silly NFTs, right? Certainly more so than a foreign government giving a candidate bags of cash for nothing.

[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 17 hours ago

Those went up in price after the initial sale afaik

[–] mkwt@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Foreign nationals, let alone foreign governments, are not allowed to give money to political campaigns in the United States. Actually illegal. Bill Clinton got in trouble for it

If you can prove that an NFT scheme was foreign campaign money laundering in court, people can go to jail.

[–] SacralPlexus@lemmy.world 103 points 1 day ago (1 children)

For sure. But of course dude tried a coup on live tv and we are having trouble getting the justice system to hold him to account. So getting proof of the NFT scheme that I outlined as a hypothetical is probably going to be harder.

[–] PunnyName@lemmy.world 25 points 1 day ago

Partially because the coup is coming from inside the house. Representatives, senators, and SCOTUS seats already planted.

[–] Windex007@lemmy.world 13 points 23 hours ago
[–] TheGiantKorean@lemmy.world 11 points 23 hours ago

How does one go about proving that money laundering occurred? Genuinely curious because I know it's illegal. I guess you'd need to catch someone admitting that they did it?

[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 8 points 17 hours ago

It's not campaign money. It's the "honest fruits of labor" that he "earned" by selling products. Even though every normal person can see that he's a fucking grifter, maga morons can't. So, now he has plausible deniability for any money "earned" in this "honest day's work".

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I see his wife has a Xmas collection for sale including NFT's.

[–] Don_Dickle@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (5 children)

I thought foreign actors could not give to a canidate?

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 21 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

Sure but they can buy "art"

[–] Shadow@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 day ago

They can't give, but they can purchase.

[–] SacralPlexus@lemmy.world 26 points 1 day ago

I believe that it is illegal, yes (I’m not a lawyer). But that is the point. They can “buy” a bunch of cheap useless stuff from him instead of giving him money. That’s the essence of money laundering. Do something that superficially looks legitimate so that you can move a bunch of money that would otherwise be illegal.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 16 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

They can buy a million gold shoes that never get shipped.

[–] jumperalex@lemmy.world 8 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

Fuck it. Ship them. They still aren't worth $100k and don't cost more than 100c. The grift is complete.

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[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 9 points 21 hours ago

I believe that's the fallout from the Citizens United ruling. There are also "Dark money" PACs that are called as such because they can keep the contributions anonymous, but these PACs are allowed to donate unlimited funds to the campaign as long as there's no "coordination" between the PAC and the candidate...

Our government is for sale.

[–] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 60 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Because he's not actually a billionaire.

Lists of rich people like Forbes primarily use number approved by the individuals through various means. We know for a fact thanks to the recent fraud case in NY that the Trump Org regularly inflated nearly every number about their business, especially real estate. They regularly inflated the value of property for things like loans and underestimated the value for taxes.

Trump is well known for requesting people not question his finances in collaborative events like his Comedy Central roast where he can control it.

People with actual money doesn't care about that. And that's just the tip of the monetary iceberg. We've learned a lot since Trump decided to run for President the first time. It was probably the worst thing he could have done to keep his grifts running smoothly.

[–] snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Was he ever a billionaire?

[–] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 31 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm sure he was at one point, then as he began losing money on terrible ideas, because he's an idiot, he started lashing out into any random crap he could to try and stabilize it. Taking out dozens of foreign loans with inflated numbers, and constantly ending up underwater in those, needing more to further the process, like a debt-based ponzi scheme where no one actually makes any money in the end, not even the banks.

He managed to bankrupt a casino. They basically print money, yet he managed to run one right out of business.

[–] Death_Equity@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

He lost the casino because he wasn't willing to play ball with the family. He thought he could be a big shot and say what happens and found out you don't try and cut in on the business of the family without giving tribute.

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[–] modifier@lemmy.ca 32 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

The better question the media should really be asking him every single chance they get - when they aren't continuing to grill him about Laura Loomer - is, "if the economy is so bad under Biden/Harris and your supporters are living paycheck to paycheck, why do you think there is a market for $100,000 watches?"

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 8 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

The media that he pays to provide him endless PR?

Do you really expect regime whores to do journalism?

[–] echo@lemmings.world 8 points 20 hours ago

The media don't work for him. He works for the media. The media work for the billionaires.

[–] rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 31 points 16 hours ago (1 children)
[–] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 hours ago

Now now, he's not lying lying, he's just really into "alternative appraisal and accounting methods". Kinda like that aunt who does her own research and swears by essential oils and homeopathy, but with money.

Let me give you an example. Let's say that I have a truck load of coarse sand, like 25 tons. I manage to sell a single 10mg grain of sand for 1 USD. By appraising my sand based fortune on this single data point, I could claim that a gram is worth 100 USD, thus I have 2.5 billion USD tied up in sand. We both know that I obviously can't liquidate my sand for that amount, but that doesn't matter, because all I need is to convince a bank that my appraisal is sound and then use the sand as collateral for a 100 million USD loan. Some of that loan I'll further invest in the sand business, after all it's booming. More sand equals more collateral, and seeing as one bank was satisfied with my collateral, then I will be able to get other banks in on it too. And now I can live like a billionaire, all because I have invested in coarse sand. And if the banks figure out that I'm full of it, then what are they going to do? Take me to court and look like idiots for buying into my sand appraisal? And risk bankruptcy as it's revealed that the collateral the bank has for its lending business is worthless? Better to keep quiet and prop up the sand mogul.

[–] edgemaster72@lemmy.world 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)

He's a narcissistic grifter. He gets satisfaction from making money and a feeling of superiority for screwing people over in the process. No amount of money will ever be enough to fill the void of his missing humanity.

I concur. Having a gold plated toilet speaks for itself.

[–] ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee 16 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Wealth isn't the same as money in bank. Most of Trump's wealth is tied into properties. You can't pay for groceries with a skyscraper. That's why many wealthy people borrow money for everyday spending rather that liquidate (sell) their assets. This applies to pretty much every wealthy person. When someone is a billionaire it doesn't mean they're hoarding billions of cash in bank.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

they're hoarding billions of cash in bank

Lemmy's understanding of wealth right there.

[–] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 hours ago

I thought that Musk and Trump kept their wealth as cash in vaults for swimming purposes.

[–] Holyginz@lemmy.world 16 points 9 hours ago

He's never been a billionaire lol

[–] Phegan@lemmy.world 11 points 7 hours ago

He's a grifter no matter how much money he does or doesn't have.

Also, the debate shouldn't be if trump is or isn't a billionaire. It's if billionaires should even exist.

They shouldn't.

[–] cerement@slrpnk.net 9 points 1 day ago

grifters gotta grift

[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 9 points 17 hours ago

billionaire once, grifter since

[–] Dkarma@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

He's a liar.

[–] LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

“Supposed to be” - this is why

[–] Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml 4 points 17 hours ago
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