The fact that it was originally written for a theatrical film probably helps.
this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
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~~Oh ... I don't know anything about that ... ?~~
TMP ... ah nearly forgot. Literally walked away from writing this post thinking "wait a minute ... I have heard it outside of TNG ...".
Yea, interesting, hadn't considered that. Thanks.
Yeah, basically they took the intro Dennis McCarthy wrote for TNG, and replaces his theme with the TMP theme
OMG my brain hates it! I mean objectively i know it sounds great, but it's so wrong from what my brain expects that it makes me bleah!
Watching that video it seems to me that there's something different in the mix that is part of what I'm talking about. I'm young enough to have seen TNG before TMP and I remember noticing this when I first watched TMP and heard the same theme. The sort of sheen that I'm talking about is more present in the TNG theme. I think the violins are EQd higher and are louder in the mix (??)
I believe it's a re-arrangement and re-recording, yeah.
Re-arranged for a smaller orchestra, and more energetic (most noticeable in the percussion)
Ha ... yea I remembered after forgetting ... thanks!
I think you can be forgiven for forgetting about TMP.
I know I try to.
Jerry Goldsmith was a master composer.
All the composers for Star Trek have been incredible in their own right. Everyone has their preferred (James Horner) but I have yet to not enjoy a Star Trek opening. And yes, that includes Enterprise. It tried to break the mold and failed, but I give it a pass because the visual sequence with it gets me still.
I will say that First Contact's theme is damn good. Especially when used at the end with the Vulcan meeting.
So you're saying you have faith in Star Trek theme songs? Faith in the heart. You're goin' where your heart will take you?
It's been a long road getting from there to here.
I saw a lot of opinions back in the day about it, and it almost seems like people were offended that they even tried to break the mold at all.
I don't actually mind Faith Of The Heart for the intro. My biggest problem with it is that its not an original song - it was written specifically for a movie that was completely unrelated to Star Trek.
I would probably appreciate it more if they wrote their own song for ENT - it could even be a country/pop song like FOTH, but it would still be a Star Trek song.
They definitely cherry picked the best bits of the song for the intro though. I like their cover more than the original.
It was received very poorly, even tainting reception of the show (which turned out to be appreciated and wanting more, long after it was gone). People just expected a classical sounding instrumental, and it hit wrong. They probably should have test marketed the idea and had some fallbacks. Still, I remember seeing the opening of the first episode and catching the frigate "Enterprize", and thinking this was great regardless.
I thought it was weird at first, but actually liked it. I didn't really get the hate - there's plenty of shows I like a lot that I like the theme a lot less and especially today you can easily skip it.
IIRC, Faith of the Heart was heir fallback. They wanted Beautiful Day by U2, but couldn't get the license.
Beautiful Day would have been worse, I think.
Mysterious Ways would have been interestingly ironic.
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Yeah.
Now you have me thinking of other movie songs that might've fit Enterprise, though. For some reason "Don't you forget about me" comes immediately to mind.
Honestly, the change on Enterprise being a lyrical song kind of fits because they aren't the Federation yet. It's a prequel. So it has this country tune playing in the intro instead.
Not country; rock. Extremely soft rock. It's a cover of a song originally performed by Rod Stewart. For the movie Patch Adams.
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TL;DR: It's the only symphonic march. Loads of brass chord progressions.
Because Jerry Goldsmith did a great orchestral arrangement riffing on the old sci-fi 60s style theme. He made it very grand with Symphonic March style and the layered horn/trumpet progressions. It is a revision of what he had previously written for Star Trek: The Motion Picture, which might also be part of why it's a March. So, if we look at the styles of a bunch of the the themes:
- TOS: fast 60s vocal arrangement
- TNG: symphonic march with cascading brass/french horn progressions
- DS9: Slower non-march style of symphonic theme
- VOY: Slower grand/inspiring symphonic theme
- ENT: Well, it's a pop song.
- DISC: Very moody/pensive slow start, growing slowly to a note of inspiration.
- PIC: Similar to DISC with a very slow/moody start. Lots of melancholy layering.
- SNW: Almost between a march and mini overture in feel, but without all those cascading horn progressions that TNG had.
:)
It somehow manages to be very orchestral and fanfare-y but also like a normal TV show introducing actors. I love that it feels like a celebration for all the awesome characters that we're about to watch.
Fun fact: originally, TNG was going to have a completely different theme:
Actually, if you've watched TNG's early seasons, you've already heard this unused theme, in bits and pieces.
The very first piece of music heard in TNG ever (that isn't the intro itself) is a slower, less energetic (more introspective I guess?) version of that unused theme.
The main leitmotif itself appears all over early TNG.
I figure that, when Maccarthy was writing the early filler music, he assumed that his theme would become the main theme, and so heavily leaned into it when writing the filler music. Obviously, the main theme was tossed - but not his other music.
Hilariously it kind of makes me think of like The Orville - you know all those "Star Trek" themes without copyright issues.
Speaking of unused music, the final TMP/TNG theme itself was almost different:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbdhC-OXXa0
There's an interview where they tell stories, and apparently after they made this early version of the music, Robert Wise listened to it and gave the best three word critique ever - "There's no theme!"
Goldsmith basically went "...oh.", then went back and reworked what he had already into the 2nd version, and there you go that's the final theme.
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I think it's because it's so different from any of the other Star Trek themes, even from the rest of the Berman era. It's bright, bouncy, optimistic, and bombastic. DS9 and Voyager were both more sweeping and majestic, and the movie themes each skewed more melodic.
The franchise hasn't really captured the same energy in a theme since, either.
Ah, the good ol’ DX7 whoooosh at beggining.
nostalgia?
Yea, maybe, obviously. But each time I hear it I can convince myself there's something relatively unique going on in the sound of it.
It's just the most energized, honestly. The TNG theme wakes you up and makes you pay attention.
To me, a big difference is in the lengthy prelude, which follows the model of TOS, just with an updated production. First the synths layered with strings, which are very 80's wonder-music(it could be right out of the score for Flight of the Navigator or The Goonies) and then the french horns come in playing a round, which adds a Wagnerian element.
The percussive "march music" elements quoting TMP are subdued in TNG's arrangement - it's a less compressed, "punchy" sound, and I believe the mic has been set farther back or they've EQ'd out some higher frequencies. Those decisions, plus a few choices of instrumentation like the harp glissandos, tone down the bombastic energy and add a gliding, romantic quality. Again, more like TOS, but updated.
Thank you! The compression and microphone points fit. And yea those glissandos definitely change the feel of the theme. IMO, they’re easy to miss but make a huge difference.
Thanks again!
It's great at giving off the feeling of hopefulness. It feels really optimistic about the future while having a sense of mystery.
Even better as the theme to Star Trek The Motion Picture where it is originally from.
Faced with composing a new Star Trek theme for the film, Goldsmith initially struggled for inspiration, and proceeded to compose as much of the score as possible before the need to develop the main title theme. His initial score for the scene in which the newly-refit Starship Enterprise is revealed to the audience was not well received by the filmmakers, director Robert Wise feeling that it lacked a strong thematic hook and evoked sailing ships. Though somewhat irked by its rejection, Goldsmith consented to re-work his initial idea and finally arrived at the Star Trek theme which was ultimately used.
The theme is distinct. I had always correlated the theme with TNG until I watched The Motion Picture several years after TNG. I did not recognize that the theme was used in both. It's amazing because it almost didn't exist, and was composed after pretty much the rest of the score was complete. Goldsmith had to rework it because the director wanted a "strong thematic hook."
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I have always loved it. It gives a feeling of space being infinite and and then the theme sound very grand.
The time signature (I had to Google) starts in the common 4/4 but then switches into 12/8 or 6/8 which has a lot of flavour
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Am I the only one who kinda hates it? Maybe it is that it was made for cinema, where this kind of loud, somewhat obnoxious epic-like theme is expected, but the way how it's trying to scream "Hey look, this guy is watching Star Trek!" while I'm just trying to chill at night, is pretty annoying.
It's like when flicking through random TV channels and a loud sex scene comes up.
It's certainly bombastic. I think after the disco TOS theme, they really wanted to point out how different and grand TNG will be. Even the words, changing from "its five year mission" to "it's continuing mission" are meant to impress the viewer with the sense of scale.
The theme does seem to be loud in the mix
Ha ... yea there is some bombast for sure. In fact I think if it didn't have the sonic qualities that I think I'm picking up on I wouldn't like at as much for this reason.
If you compare the TNG theme to the theme in TMP, (youtube, TMP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI9YYe-jgHI, youtube TNG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5kcBxL7-qI), I feel like I can hear a difference and I think it's that difference that makes me like the TNG theme ... that it has a sound (not the music so much) that feels like TNG to me.
Now that you mention it, I like the TMP more. Maybe it's just because I've heard the TNG theme a trillion times, but compared to TMP... I don't know, I guess it's like hearing a 1-minute disco remix of a song you like. The gist of it is there, but it's not the same and kinda spoils the whole thing.
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