Not necessarily. It might be because of the crimes in the public groups and channels in Telegram. That makes it no more immune from responsibility than Facebook or Twitter.

See this thread

Signal doesn't have those.

[–] punkisundead@slrpnk.net 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Considering how hard it is for goverments to actually get Telegram to shutdown criminal chat groups or get chat logs (of unencrypted ) groups I think its at least more reasonable than the whole idea of banning E2E encryption.

[–] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Most Telegram groups I stumble across for anything even remotely illegal have been shut down, so it's clearly not as lawless as you're painting it to be.

[–] punkisundead@slrpnk.net 6 points 2 months ago

It took the german goverment years to force Telegram to comply with their requests to get data and shut down specific groups. Also based on your location things that might be legal are not legal in a different location, from a German legal perspective there still lots of things happening in Telegram that are atleast a grey area(piracy, hate speech, porn) or straight up illegal(drugs, terrorist groups propaganda).

I am not in favor of the arrest or any goverment repression btw, I am just adding why goverments in europe might want to do stuff like this.

[–] Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works 45 points 2 months ago (4 children)

every encrypted messenger service is complicit in pedophelia apparently.

[–] Deello@lemm.ee 37 points 2 months ago (8 children)

I mean yes but that's like saying Bitcoin is used by criminals to buy drugs and weapons. The problem is that's not their only use.

[–] Supermariofan67@programming.dev 15 points 2 months ago

Wait till you hear about the idiots who unironically make that argument for banning Bitcoin too

[–] BautAufWasEuchAufbaut@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 2 months ago

Bitcoin is a bad example, since it's not designed as a private currency. Monero/XMR is actually usable.

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[–] punkisundead@slrpnk.net 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I dont think Telegram is something that I would call an "encrypted messenger"

[–] Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

i dont get this. it can be used as one. its being seen as criminal because of its ability to send encrypted messages. comments like this are meaningless.

[–] punkisundead@slrpnk.net 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yeah and still we should not push the message that Telegrams encryption is even remotely close to other encrypted messengers. I met more than one person that somehow thought their messages in Telegram are "safer" than they are in WhatsApp (and they never activated the encrypted chat oprion in Telegram)

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[–] pedroapero@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago

No, every service provider must remove infringing content when reported. That is not the case on Telegram.

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[–] probableprotogen@lemmy.dbzer0.com 44 points 2 months ago

France is fucking nuts

[–] DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 42 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It's going to be so over soon

This is no doubt retaliation for not handing over the encryption keys

[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, farewell Telegram. He should probably have stayed at home.

[–] DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Fucking hell what now. We can't use discord and now this. Theres a TG group I'm in that specifically releases Teknoparrot arcade dumps. SHIT

[–] Subdivide6857@midwest.social 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Matrix.

[–] DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm talking about groups. I don't believe matrix has those....not easily searchable anyway.

EDIT: Ooohh a shithead are we?

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[–] xnx@slrpnk.net 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Discord is banned in France?

[–] ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org 18 points 2 months ago

Probably not, but discord is far worse. Not in functionality, before you say, but in everything else. While it's questionable whether telegram is private in any level, with discord that's not a question at all.

[–] Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 months ago

No discord bans pirate communities

[–] Reshirams_Rad_Slam@mastodo.neoliber.al 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

@DoucheBagMcSwag @Flatworm7591 What's the news with Discord and by home you mean Dubai?

[–] DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Discord gets .."complaints" from corporations and if they don't like what a channel has, they can request a Thanos snap for the group.

It's what happened to switch emulator Sudachi and other greyware apps that a similar ilk of us here gravitate to

[–] ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org 9 points 2 months ago

What encryption keys?

[–] Aradia@lemmy.ml 32 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Summary: France "requesting" Telegram keys.

[–] DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Summary: "we are no longer asking."

[–] Aradia@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago

But the act to put him on prison is a way to request the access for no longer asking. Depends on how much Pavel Durov can handle this torture.

[–] Findmysec@infosec.pub 25 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Guys, please move to something using TOR/I2P. I've been saying it for a long time now, but clearnet services are just asking to be taken down.

Unfortunately for Europe though, the US has a massive incentive for something like TOR to function appropriately, because their military uses it too.

[–] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 14 points 2 months ago (3 children)

What TOR or I2P chat services are there though? Contrary to popular belief, Telegram blew up because it was so well designed. It was winning design awards year on year back when WhatsApp looked atrocious.

[–] ReversalHatchery@beehaw.org 4 points 2 months ago

Several of them could be ran over there, including Matrix.

Probably there are already some chat services. notbob.i2p should list them if so.

[–] Tazerface@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 months ago

Briar is a messaging app that defaults to Tor. I have limited usage with Briar and have never used Telegram so I can't say how they compare.

[–] Findmysec@infosec.pub 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Simplex, Jabber, Briar?

I'm sure there's something over I2P too

[–] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

SimpleX can be self hosted too right?

[–] Findmysec@infosec.pub 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

You don't need to. It connects over TOR and has no back-end servers that it relies on. Briar and Simplex have forward secrecy and are the only two I would personally use

[–] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Ah, seems SimpleX isn't the potential messenger I was hoping for.

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[–] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Some significant news for Telegram users!

See this article for some interesting backstory context on Pavel Durov and Telegram: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-telegram-billionaire-and-his-dark-empire-a-f27cb79f-86ae-48de-bdbd-8df604d07cc8

Since the post article is in French, here's an auto-translation:

Pavel Durov, the founder and CEO of the encrypted messaging service Telegram, was arrested around 8 p.m. on Saturday evening as he got off his private jet on the tarmac of Le Bourget airport. The 39-year-old Franco-Russian was accompanied by his bodyguard and a woman.

The arrest was carried out by the gendarmes of the GTA (Air Transport Gendarmerie). Registered in the RPF (wanted persons file), Pavel Durov came straight from Azerbaijan. He had over his head a French search warrant issued by the OFMIN of the National Directorate of the French Judicial Police, issued on the basis of a preliminary investigation.

Why was he under threat of a search warrant?

The Justice considers that the lack of moderation, cooperation with the police and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable number, cryptocurrencies, etc.) makes it complicit in drug trafficking, paedophile offences and fraud.

This search warrant ran if, and only if, Pavel Durov was on national territory. "He made a mistake tonight. We don't know why... Was this flight just a step? In any case, he's locked up!" a source close to the investigation told TF1/LCI. Since he knew he was persona non grata in France, Pavel Durov used to travel to the Emirates, the countries of the former USSR, South America... He travelled very little in Europe and avoided countries where Telegram is under surveillance.

And now?

Investigators from the ONAF (National Anti-Fraud Office attached to the Customs Directorate) notified him and placed him in police custody. He is expected to be presented to an investigating judge this Saturday evening before a possible indictment on Sunday for a multitude of offences: terrorism, drugs, complicity, fraud, money laundering, concealment, paedophile content...

"Pavel Durov will end up in pre-trial detention, that's for sure," comments an investigator to TF1/LCI. "On his platform, he allowed an incalculable number of misdemeanours and crimes to be committed for which he does nothing to moderate or cooperate," said a source close to the case.

His pre-trial detention at the end of his indictment is indeed in no doubt. Pavel Durov, a billionaire, has substantial means to flee and his guarantees of representation will hardly convince the judges.

A net with international resonance

For the investigators, this international sweep has various objectives. First, it makes it possible to kick the anthill, impress and deter the perpetrators of crimes and offences who exchange, until now, freely on Telegram. Secondly, they aim to put pressure on European countries to step up joint work to make secure messaging on terrorist cases bend.

Indeed, Telegram is a hive of criminal content. At the moment, the platform is in the news with the illegal broadcasting of Ligue 1 matches. But on this encrypted messaging service, many accounts are used by organized crime. Beyond terrorism, the most dangerous pedophiles communicate on Telegram to exchange content. "It has become for years THE number 1 platform for organized crime," comments an investigator.

[–] BurningRiver@beehaw.org 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Indeed, Telegram is a hive of criminal content. At the moment, the platform is in the news with the illegal broadcasting of Ligue 1 matches.

This is pretty funny. The first example of crime is people posting dodgy links to football streams? They can’t be serious.

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[–] zaknenou@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 months ago

Indeed, Telegram is a hive of criminal content

the platform is in the news with the illegal broadcasting of Ligue 1 matches

[–] MayonnaiseArch@beehaw.org 6 points 2 months ago

Just here too look at shits saying this is because racism jesus fucking christ

[–] zaknenou@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 months ago

the only platform where Hamas could actually share official content, including combat footage kinos ;_; rather than made-up sites attributed to them.

[–] just_an_average_joe@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

France is an oppressive country. Racism is so high there, especially against muslims which is indicative of their ideology and lack of respect for the individual's right.

[–] WarmApplePieShrek@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 months ago

And men aren't allowed to know if the child that came out of their wife is theirs

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