The bourgeois was anarchic before his class seized political power and imposed on society the ideal State regime suitable to safeguard the capitalist mode of production
definitely going to use this in future convos
this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2023
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GenZedong
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I can see the retort being, a now-proletarian anarchic movement can 'seize[] political power and impose[] on society the ideal State regime suitable to safeguard the [anarchist] mode of production'.
Still, it's a good quote and could be used at the same time as the idea that capitalism entails an 'anarchy of production', which leads to crises of overproduction. The question becomes, without planning, how do left wing anarchists plan to avoid this problem?
I think, if you have convinced an anarchist to form a state to defend their anarchist ideals, you have pretty much convinced them of Marxism, just with different words.
They’re still missing the important Marxist class analysis
By hook or crook!
This is really bad quote to use by itself if you’re trying to “debunk” anarchists. Not because it’s actually a bad quote, but because it seems like one when read naively.
Even though it’s trying to make a different, much more salient point, it just reads as another version of the “Hitler was a vegan” cliche.
I love this line:
The bourgeois will become an anarchist again after the proletarian revolution: he will once again become aware of the existence of a State; of the existence of laws foreign to his will, hostile to his interests, to his habits, to his freedom. He will realize that “State” is synonymous with “compulsion” because the workers’ State will take away the bourgeoisie’s freedom to exploit the proletariat, because the workers’ State will be the bulwark of a new mode of production which, as it develops, will destroy every trace of capitalist ownership and any possibility of its revival.
This is exactly the crux of the failure of ideological "Freedom Now" maximalism. That maximalist freedom they want includes the freedom to exploit and take away the freedom of others. The paradox that needs to be accepted and synthesised is that Freedom necessarily must be imposed at this stage.
Precisely, without the dictatorship of the proletariat there is no path towards stopping exploitation.
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Seems like some people are overly optimistic with when the state should be abolished.
Socialist transition to communism will last for a long time, that's because socialists are not tyrannical bastards like capitalists, and the material conditions required for communism isn't going to be reached in the foreseeable future.
A good timeline to follow is the second centenary goal of China, that is to "build a modern socialist country that is prosperous, strong, democratic, culturally advanced and harmonious by 2049".
It's idealist af. It'll take generations upon generations, just like in the transition from feudalism to capitalism. Hell, we're still dealing with the remnants of old feudal orders in the age of late stage capitalism.
There is no communism button.
thanks for the post interesting read so far
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