As Henry Kissinger so honestly put it: “It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”
this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
36 points (90.9% liked)
World News
32286 readers
779 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Unless we start turning things around from the bottom up, America is going to leave its own people out to dry.
that's already happening
One of our candidates for president has said it outright, and Republicans whine about helping Ukraine at every opportunity. If I were European, I wouldn’t be sure I could count on the U.S., either.
Imagine thinking that using Ukraine in a proxy war against Russia is helping. 🤦
The alternative is leaving them to get “special operationed” without any outside help, and then Poland or whoever Putin thinks he deserves to take land from is next, isn’t it?
This whole narrative that Russia wants more land has no basis in reality. In fact, Russia was perfectly fine with a neutral Ukraine, and tensions only started after the western backed coup happened. And even then Russia tried to find a peaceful solution for eight whole years. The reason the war happened was NATO expansion, but don't take it from me. Here it is from the horse's mouth. This is the head of NATO saying this openly and plainly:
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite.
This perspective is just the casual erasure of the free agency of people living in the democracies of central and Eastern Europe, Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltic states.
Instead of seeing it as NATO expanding, why can’t you see it that many countries are afraid of Russia and are voluntarily joining? Why would they be afraid of Russia? Sweden and Finland held out for a long time, and when they joined it was not because NATO “expanded into” them, it’s because they wanted to join! Aren’t you capable of seeing all these people as making their own choices?
Ukraine has a long yet alternating history of good relations with Russia alongside the desire for greater integration with the west. You are just absolutely incapable of acknowledging that they made their own choice for themselves to move away from Russia. They expressed their collective will with Yushchenko in 2005, with Maidan in 2013-2014, and still to this day. Russia was perfectly fine with a neutral Ukraine as long as the Ukrainians only do what Russia wants them to do, and when they don’t (or when Georgia didn’t), they get the tanks.
Nah, there's no erasure of the agency of the people which was expressed by the uprising in DPR and LPR where people rebelled against the regime. Same agency is being currently expressed in Georgia where they're kicking out western propagandists.
The fact that the west ran a coup in Ukraine is well documented, and it's very clear that the fascist regime there does not represent the majority o the people. The very fact that Ukraine no longer has elections underscores just how unpopular this regime is.
Go spread your propaganda elsewhere.
the uprising in DPR and LPR where people rebelled against the regime.
You mean these people, right? The ones Russia sent in?
The fact that the west ran a coup in Ukraine is well documented,
It most certainly is not. If it were you’d have provided a source.
and it's very clear that the fascist regime there does not represent the majority o the people.
Citation needed. The events of 2005, 2013/2014, 2022-present beg to differ.
The very fact that Ukraine no longer has elections underscores just how unpopular this regime is.
Oh you got me, I definitely can’t think of ANY other reasons why elections would be challenging in Ukraine right now.
Go spread your propaganda elsewhere.
Pot, meet kettle.
You mean these people, right? The ones Russia sent in?
Nah, I mean these people that the fascists you support have been bombing for 8 years are reported by western media
Also, once you spend a bit of time to learn some history instead of trolling here, then you'll find out that Ukraine was cobbled together when USSR was formed and that LPR and DPR is predominantly populated by Russians because it was part of Russia previously.
It most certainly is not. If it were you’d have provided a source.
Just because you're ignorant of something doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Citation needed. The events of 2005, 2013/2014, 2022-present beg to differ.
Yes, it's typical for a government that has mass public support to ban all opposition parties, free media, and to cancel elections. 🤡
Oh you got me, I definitely can’t think of ANY other reasons why elections would be challenging in Ukraine right now.
I can't see why elections would be a problem if there was support for the government and the war. But you keep on making a clown of yourself. It suits you well.
Let's take a look at a few slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. Mearsheimer is certainly not pro Russian in any sense, and a proponent of US global hegemony. First, here's the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here's how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
There is a reason why many global south do not trust America..
As a European, I'd say it is very much in America's MO to come into a conflict all guns blazing and with lots of bluster, then get caught in a quagmire for an absurdly long time, then eventually randomly declare that they've won and just bail, with very little regard for whoever's left still fighting who isn't American.
It seems to happen with them pretty regularly, and for an example it was only about three years ago that they hurriedly pulled out of Afghanistan and abandoned the local translators to their fates with the Taliban.
With regards to Russia encroaching into Europe, could we be 100% certain that Trump won't win the next election and start throwing favours to Putin? I'd say it's certainly a possibility.
Doesn't that show that a slight majority rates them "reliable"?
Leave them high and dry to whom?
high and dry to deal with the consequences of the failed proxy war against Russia while US moved onto try and start a war with China
Why would Europe still be in danger?
because NATO keeps expanding eastwards
If Russia is so peaceful, why would countries want to join NATO?
You can just look at Georgia to see the answer of how countries join NATO. First, the US floods them with NGOs, and then installs a pro western regime. This is done in the open and it's well documented, yet here you are.
I didn't know Finland and Sweden got flooded by NGO's. You know, the countries who actually joined NATO.
Ah yes, the famous referendums Finland and Sweden held to see if the public wanted to join NATO.