Good. Not a fucking dime until Ukraine gets much needed funding. And then still not a fucking dime because Israel has proven to be quite capable of leveling Gaza with the resources they already have and are at absolutely 0 risk of losing any territory whatsoever.
this post was submitted on 07 Feb 2024
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What if we fund Ukraine's defense instead of Israel's offense?
I was under the impression there was Ukraine aid in this bill. But I agree, I'd rather fund them separately.
Edit: And Israel not at all, at the moment.
The Senate bill has Ukraine aid, border security stuff, and "aid" for Israel. Mike Johnson was throwing a tantrum that the GOP/Dem Senate leadership didn't include him in their negotiations (seriously, he sent out a letter to the House yesterday morning whining about it) so he decided to bring a bill up with just "aid" for Israel.
As you can see, he is continuing the proud tradition of effective GOP Speakers. 🙄
The speaker of the house is mad that he wasn't involved in senate business? Sounds like a fucking excuse to me.
The speaker doesn't have to be involved in all things. They aren't on every committee.
Yes, the speaker of the house really shouldn't be involved in senate business. That's what I was saying. It was a bullshit excuse on the speaker's part.
The Speaker typically has major sway over the budget even though they aren't on the Ways and Means Committee.
That said, it is usually tradition for the Senate to come up with the compromise when the House and President are at odds and can't negotiate their own deal.
I imagine that during bipartisan Senate negotiations it'd be prudent and/or courteous to include the House leadership as well, to avoid this exact kind of embarrassment.
Could someone explain what's the argument in favor of US funding Israel with these amounts other than securing a geopolitical partner in middle east?
Israel is not even a good geopolitical partner in the Middle East. Nearly everyone hates them so whenever we do operations over there we keep them out because we know even their presence will increase tensions and lose hearts and minds. They're good for spying on Iran but you have to take everything with a grain of salt because they could be lying in order to try and get us to be more confrontational because they despise Iran.
The reasons the U.S. government overwhelmingly supports Israel is:
- evangelicals think the Jews taking over Israel will cause the rapture, which they want...
- Sheer inertia
- the idea that Israel is "an island of liberal democracy" in a sea of authoritarian Arab states
- Heavy lobbying from organizations like AIPAC, and if you don't follow their line they'll spend millions on you opponent's campaign.
- Military industrial complex loves sales to Israel
- military industrial complex relies on technology and equipment from Israel
- Islamaphobia and the idea that they're fighting the good fight against the evil terrorists
- residual guilt for the Holocaust and the west's antisemitic past
APEC
I think you mean AIPAC.
Yeah your right, got it confused with a conference around here that they still have ads up for. Edited
Your list is spot on, and what's interesting about it is the strange bedfellows it creates. You have a coalition of literal Nazis, Orthodox Jews, and Intelligence Agencies calling for more bombs to fight fascism and spread democracy.
The thing about American Nazis is, yes they are virulently anti-Semitic but they also are usually fiercely steeped in their twisted version of Christianity, which says the Jews have to be in Israel for Armageddon to happen. Then they'll get their heavenly rewards while the rest of us are punished forever, since they see us as the cause of all their problems.
They're perfectly willing to tolerate Jews' existence, as long as it's not here in America.
Modern day Christianity is a death cult begging for the end of the world to happen and according to their mythology, Israel has to occupy that particular piece of dirt, regardless of whoever is already there. And since a still-significant portion of the American electorate are superstitious and arms manufacturers are so wealthy, our politicians are more than happy to pander to the one to take donations from the other.
It's even more sinister than that even; not only are they looking forward to the world ending, they think that they are the only ones getting into "heaven" and everyone else will be tormented in "hell" forever.
They look forward to the few million of them getting a "reward" while the other 10 billion people burn. That's the mentality of a lunatic that doesn't deserve to be allowed in civilization, but instead, society had deemed their lunacy a protected class.
Nevermind that their own Bible says specifically that only 144k people will get into heaven and even then it's only male Jewish virgins.
Besides the religious angle, the funding we give to Israel tends to come right back into the pockets of US military contractors. This is great if you like military contractors. I'm not one of those people, but they apparently exist.
Because they are the only reasonable geopolitical partner in the middle east. Every other country there is fucking with oil prices every 4 years for political gain. Also passively or actively supporting terrorism.
US desires stability over all else. Israel is committed to stability as well because stability improves their ability to detect and subvert terrorism against them.
Israel allows the US to project power into the region.
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Good on two levels. Fuck Israel and fund Ukraine, you bootlicking GOP cowards.
I'll take funding Israel and Ukraine together if we have to, because one war we can make a difference in, and the other we can't, but the sin of backing Israel at this point, when it is blatantly obvious they are freely murdering Palestinians without cause, will be another stain on US history.
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Lol, we're not getting a border deal but this means we can't be evil in the middle east! Quick. Let's do it ad hoc.
Anyone of you assholes who said Trump wouldn't fund Isreal, read it and weep. Fascist dickwads.
LOL nothing pisses people off more than pointing out that not voting for Biden is the same as voting for Trump. They have no response to that fact and it causes them to rage.
It's like, we are all mad about it too but if we ever want shit to change you need to first stand against the GOP in its current form. It's the absolute very least you can do and people BITCH about it to no end.
Yep. My paraphrase:
"OH BUT BIDEN DIDN'T DO THE LIST OF THINGS THAT I PERSONALLY WANTED AND DID THE THINGS THAT EVERY DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT EVER HAS DONE AND NOW I'M SUPER SAD ABOUT THE WHOLE THING."
It makes people angry because it's an illogical nonsense argument. If it were true then it follows that not voting for Trump is the same as voting for Biden, and therefore not voting at all must be the same as voting for BOTH Trump and Biden.
Let’s do it ad hoc.
A la carte, even.
Have you seen America's evil acts selection? The options are endless!
It can't be long until they turn on Johnson, right?
That's what authoritarians do. They delete failed leaders from their ranks and then from history.
After a couple of retirements, the margins are now so thin that it might result in a Democrat becoming Speaker. Matt Gaetz and his crew may or may not be smart enough to realize this.
Not surprising. I mean, what all have they passed lately?
The GOP seems to think that the legislative branch is in place to prevent laws from passing.
legislative branch is in place to prevent laws from passing.
Umm, pretty sure it's by design. Can't have too much Democracy.
Considering a not insignificant amount of the founding fathers were openly anti democratic to the point of being what would later be called fascist it's not particularly surprising.
at this point, i feel embarrassed for them
Fuck the politicians who are in only for the money.
Don't forget the power. The money is nice, but it's really just the means to having power over other people.
'Fails' is very much the right word there.
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