this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
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[–] psyonity@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

As a Dutchie, I can only agree. I do have to say the road infrastructure in a lot of countries will have to change too to make this feasible... I have been to Edinburgh, Scotland last week and it feels completely suicidal to ride a bike there, barely any bike lanes and a very big dislike towards cyclists.

If anyone wants to know more about how we do roads in the Netherlands, I totally recommend Not Just Bikes

I do question how this statement of carbon emissions reduction holds up with the large change towards electric bikes, but electric scales better to green energy then cars I guess.

[–] myself33@beehaw.org 13 points 1 year ago

During 40 years, everything has been done for cars. But it's ridiculous to use a 5 persons transport (car) for only one person. The ecological problem is not only thermal vs electric, it's also cars versus 2 wheels transport

[–] savjee@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

From my experience, the electricity consumption of e-bikes is low. We have a Babboe cargo bike and we drive 5km every day. I measure the electricity consumption of the charger, and it comes down to 0.5-1kWh per month. I assume regular e-bikes have an even lower consumption.

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[–] Abel@lemmy.nerdcore.social 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Don't put the burden on people. Cities worldwide are hostile to cyclists and even pedestrians.

[–] parlaptie@feddit.de 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's a chicken and egg problem, unfortunately. Cities won't improve conditions for cyclists if they only see car traffic and people will avoid cycling under bad conditions.

[–] Abel@lemmy.nerdcore.social 11 points 1 year ago

You know what, you're right.

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[–] Sir_Simon_Spamalot@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah right, keep putting this problem on "everyone" because those bigger poluting companies can do nothing to change their course of action.

[–] geissi@feddit.de 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think this shouldn't be read as an individual call to action as in 'everyone has to do their part and start cycling'.
Rather, it should be a call for governments to support a changing traffic and transportation infrastructure.

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[–] unceme@lemmy.one 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The great news is that infrastructure to make cities more walkable and bikeable is actually really cheap. Like, compared to car infrastructure that can move a similar amount of people it's nothing. It's mostly an issue of political will to actually build the stuff.

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[–] lightswitchr@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, it's not possible for everyone to use a bike 100% of the time. Infrastructure does help, and I admit my UK city is certainly not very bike friendly, but even if it was it would be nearly impossible as everything is just too far away and/or you can't transport what you need to on just a bike. We still need cars of some propulsion method or another.

[–] mate_classic@feddit.de 11 points 1 year ago

I hear where you're coming from but this isn't what the article said. Dutch people use other modes of transportation than bikes. Just not as much. There are use cases where cars are hard to replace but right now, we are using them for way too many things. Public transportation is another alternative to cars that is way to often overlooked.

[–] sanzky@fedia.io 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

why "people cannot bike 100% of the time" but"people cannot drive 100% of the time" is never an issue? There are way more people who cant drive than people who cant ride a bicycle and that didnt stop humanity from making ourselves dependant on cars.

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[–] atlasraven31@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It would also help if expensive private jets and yachts had to pay to offset their CO2 emissions. Oil industries and others need to pay for their pollution too and certainly can't claim government money as they pollute.

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[–] P1r4nha@feddit.de 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Although the practicality is questionable, I think the takeaway is that we will have to rethink mobility and dense environments with good cycling infrastructure will be the most sustainable ones. Public transportation which is great too, also requires a certain density to be feasible.

[–] Yabai@beehaw.org 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The practicality isn't questionable.

Of course there are outliers and places/people it wouldn't work for but the vast majority should be absolutely fine.

[–] Hirom@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Even if it's not practical right away, that's just a reason to vote to put people in charge who would make it practical and convenient.

It's also possible to join a non-profit that engage with the public and local governments to make bicycle-friendly infrastructure happen.

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[–] rigo@lemmy.one 6 points 1 year ago (12 children)

It is questionable though in most states in the US atleast. Not sure how someone who lives a 20 minute drive from the nearest town in the middle of nowhere is supposed to ride a bike around. The whole world isn't urbanized

[–] Yabai@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're right that currently it's hard many places in the US thanks to suburbs, terrible zoning, car focused laws and so on.
But it's not like biking itself is the issue here, it's that you are in dire need of better infrastructure, zoning, public transport and laws.

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[–] anji@lemmy.anji.nl 8 points 1 year ago (8 children)

According to the 2022 Census 80% of US population lives in urban areas.

If could enable this 80% to use bicycles and public transportation we'd experience a massive shift in public health, energy efficiency and reduced emissions...

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[–] deelayman@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago

I asked a couple with a 3 year old daughter how they get around without a car, and they said they cycle by default and use a car-share service occasionally for longer journeys. The amount they save on insurance alone pays for the car-shares and short term car rentals to get out of the city for a few days.

Suburbs and rural areas can benefit from electric bikes to an extent. And a more deliberate focus on building transit oriented communities should help quite a bit.

[–] Amiral_Poitou@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I wish we had more bike-friendly infrastructures on France, right now everything is still adapted to a car-centered lifestyle...

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[–] hex@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Here's the thing. Everyone will bike like the Dutch and the Dutch will bike even more. It's not a question of "if." We are already past peak oil. There will only be more wars and more climate change. Those who survive will be relying on bikes because petroleum won't be an option anymore and electric cars are not a real solution. Cities will become more dense, suburbs will decay, in all likelihood huge parts of the US will completely collapse because life will be impossible without cars. We know petroleum is finite and there is no other technology that will replace this.

We can prepare by rolling out infrastructure now, or we can just keep going and crash as hard as possible in to a wall. No matter what we do, we're going to stop using gas. I hope we do it on our terms rather than waiting for tons of people to die before we fix it, but I honestly don't have a lot of hope. But hey, some people are starting to wake up so maybe we can keep that going and save millions of lives.

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[–] RedMarsRepublic@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (18 children)

Cycling is cool but that's small-fry compared to if we all went vegan (or even just vegetarian)...

[–] chickpeaze@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago (7 children)

While I'm a card carrying bike nut and plant-based eater, I feel we can make more of a difference encouraging people to do things that are less all in.

Work commute too far right now? Maybe start replacing the small car trips with bike trips.

Veganism unthinkable? Maybe try a meatless day or two a week.

Something people can wrap their heads around, and after trying, realise they haven't died.

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[–] idle@158436977.xyz 7 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Not really sure how well bikes would work where I live. The winters are harsh, and its steep hill after steep hill.

[–] Kapitel42@feddit.de 17 points 1 year ago

Its surprising how well bikes can work in harsh winter conditions, if the infrastructure is well build. Not just Bikes has a video on Oulu in Finnland that does this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU&t=1s

[–] AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

A valid concern. Bikes are good for fair weather and close proximity. Not all of the world is set up for this. Trains and busses have been around for a long time and can help reduce emissions and work in bad weather. Trains could require costly new infrastructure but busses can use existing roadways. The big goal should be to move away from cars. Ten people on a bus use less emissions then 10 cars on thier own.

[–] juni@skein.city 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Out of curiosity, could you clarify "close proximity"? Because I certainly agree a bike is not viable if you are in the countryside. However having switched to bicycling and no longer driving my car recently, it has shrunk the world around me far more than driving ever has.

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[–] idle@158436977.xyz 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Agreed. they are so expensive let alone bad for the environment.

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[–] ebike_enjoyer@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

E-bikes can definitely solve the hill problem. As for staying warm, there’s the option of bundling up in some winter rated clothes. Think clothes for skiing or winter hiking, etc. I’ve even seen jackets with usb rechargeable heaters inside of them that motorcyclists use, though I haven’t tried that myself.

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[–] Scary_le_Poo@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

When are these idiots (journalists/editors) going to learn that messaging matters? 690 million tonnes? Yeah, sounds like a lot. No context for that number in the headline which is all most people read.

Perhaps instead of listingn only statistics and pretending that laypeople care, help people see what that would mean for them personally. Get them invested in the idea. Help plant the seeds and allow them to come to the conclusion that things should change. It's like someone saying the government spent a billion dollars on something. Sure, that's a lot of money, but the vast majority of people have no real concept of what a billion of something even is.

It's a damn shame that the us isn't more bike friendly. I would kill to have a public transit system that didn't suck, but unfortunately,l unless there is a massive change, I don't see car usage going anywhere.

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[–] Cowbob45@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Yes but not everyone lives in a flatland like the dutch do, I believe I could fully transition to a bicycle if cars weren't the top priority on my city, but I know many friends that live in parts of the city that are basically mountains.

[–] karce@wizanons.dev 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ebikes are definitely the answer. Much easier to ride up hills and very accessible for regular people to start riding. Plus they are significantly cheaper than cars when you account for insurance and registration and maintenance, etc.

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[–] hex@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

There are plenty of people who bike in Seattle. Ebikes make it achievable for most people. Also, there are tons of cities that are flat. Why isn't Austin or LA as bike friendly as Amsterdam or the Hague? Hills aren't the problem.

[–] chickpeaze@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Ebikes have really helped flatten things out in my area. I see plenty of couples in their 70s and 80s tooling around.

However they're not cheap, and I think there should be tax incentives for buying them.

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[–] Bnuttn@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Hard to use bikes a lot here in Finland. If you live in one of big cities then yes maybe but even then the winters are long, snowy and cold.

[–] sidd555@toast.ooo 10 points 1 year ago

Oulu seem to have it pretty nailed down in their infrastructure, even in winter, a lot of people cycle

[–] XTL@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 year ago

Some cities winter cycle just fine. Oulu is often in the news about that.

But yes, it gets hard if there's distance and frequent bad weather and hostile traffic and bad road maintenance.

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[–] dollop_of_cream@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is a very impressive set of reasons why we could and should encourage less CO2 intensive forms of transport, indeed many actions. However, these arguments always seem to me to take the pattern of picking the extreme example of whatever good we are hoping to achieve and then implying that everyone else could easily make the switch. There is always a wide and natural variety in things and this is true for differences between nations too. Extreme examples used like this often just end up making a bigger divide between people because the discussion misses all of the important differences that constrain choices and shape outcomes. We just end up talking from our own perspectives and experiences rather than exploring the complicated and difficult questions of how we can produce localised and regional responses to CO2 emissions drawn from fossil fuels.

[–] Yabai@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Riding bikes really isn't very extreme

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[–] Che_Donkey@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Left LA in 2018. went from a 10min bikeride (1.25hr workout) to a 3-5hr commute because "promotion"... now I don't even have a license, i run my 70 seat restaurant via cargo bike just fine (only meats, beer/wine delivery).

went from a 2-3hr drive to the beach (++ parking fees) to 5 min bike, 10 min walk to one of several beaches.

multiple mountain hiking trails within 20 min, bus/train with regular service etc.

We could not be happier in our little slice of socialist hell....

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