this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2023
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Reddit has stopped working for millions of users around the world.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/reddit-down-subreddits-protest-not-working-b2356013.html

The mass outage comes amid a major boycott from thousands of the site’s administrators, who are protessting new changes to the platform.

On 12 June, popular sub-Reddits like r/videos and r/bestof went dark in retaliation to proposed API (Application Programming Interface) charges for third-party app developers.

Among the apps impacted by the new pricing is popular iOS app Apollo, which announced last week that it was unable to afford the new costs and would be shutting down.

Apollo CEO Christian Selig claimed that Reddit would charge up to $20 million per year in order to operate, prompting the mass protest from Reddit communities.

In a Q&A session on Reddit on Friday, the site’s CEO Steve Huffman defended the new pricing.

“Some apps such as Apollo, Reddit is Fun, and Sync have decided this pricing doesn’t work for their businesses and will close before pricing goes into effect,” said Mr Huffman, who goes by the Reddit username u/spez.

“For the other apps, we will continue talking. We acknowledge that the timeline we gave was tight; we are happy to engage with folks who want to work with us.”

In response to the latest outage, one Reddit user wrote on Twitter: “Spez, YOU broke Reddit.”

Website health monitor DownDetector registered more than 7,000 outage reports for Reddit on Monday.

Some users were greeted with the message: “Something went wrong. Just don’t panic.”

Others received an error warning that stated: “Our CDN [content delivery network] was unable to reach our servers.”


Update: Seems to be resolved for most users

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[–] Scribbd@feddit.nl 77 points 1 year ago

Best thing I read so far about this:

The official Reddit API goes dark in solidarity with current protests.

[–] Clbull@beehaw.org 43 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Beehaw is getting hammered with traffic and is really slow today. I wonder if there's been a mass exodus to Lemmy...

[–] ManMade91@midwest.social 37 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I just joined lemmy today. I like it so far. A little rough around the edges, but seems to have potential.

[–] araquen@beehaw.org 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Think of the “Lemmyverse” as the ground floor in relation to your Reddit experiences. Like a new MMO when comparing with the maturity of WoW. Some things will feel a little awkward for not having the polish, but there are other mechanics that are new and engaging. The more people who engage on Lemmy, Beehaw, et. al., and the longer the engagement, the better the experience will get. I think of it more like a diamond in the rough, instead of it being a “lesser” version of Reddit.

The difference here is that your investment (of your time) can’t be undercut by a greedy CEO. A fediverse is “self healing.” It’s like setting up a mesh - one node could go bad but the network itself will survive.

[–] Manticore@beehaw.org 21 points 1 year ago (13 children)

This is why I'm hoping Lemmy can resist against some of the Reddit-specific culture that I think would dampen the experience here. Animosity towards emojis, creating echo-chamber communities/subreddits, the air of smug self-righteousness, discussion as something one can 'win' etc.

Redditors in general aren't bad, but a lot of vocal users had it in their heads that they were somehow better than people who used other platforms, and staked lines to maintain that cultural divide. Some of them concluded they were better than other redditors; turning communities into Us vs Them tribalism, until they would fracture into r/subreddit and r/truesubreddit.

Lemmy is not Reddit. It had a culture and it had users before the API shuffle; it's an opportunity to start fresh. It's not appropriate to expect Lemmy turn into Reddit, with all the unpleasantness that entails, and at the expense of the lemmings that were already here.

I'm quite honest about it; I spent years on Reddit too. I'm a redditor. But being here on Lemmy has been such a wonderful breath of fresh air, the 'I disagree but I'll respectfully explain why' that Reddit was missing for years. I can feel how miserable modern Reddit is in comparison and I really hope we don't recreate it.

[–] crank@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

until they would fracture into r/subreddit and r/truesubreddit.

You know, as a person who has never been in a "true" subreddit or a cj sub or a meme sub, I really do not mind those who wish to be so. They are doing their own thing. They have their own norms and expectations and that is where they go to be comfortable. So what?

And do you really think100% of those people literally only went to those subs and never contributed anywhere else? Nah, they were on the needlework sub posting their stitches or posting pictures of clouds or whatever.

We do not all have to be in one big group... I do not understand this fantasy. It is really OK to have different venues for different ideas and ways of being; that is one of the magics of online life in fact. It is possible to have little weird niches, even of smugness. One of the joys in life, which is dripping from the above comment and countless others I have been reading here. :D

[–] Manticore@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Let me share with you what I'm thinking of when I talk about 'true' subs, as I understand it's a broad statement. I can offer a perspective that is more nuanced, if longer to read. I'll bold the key statements.

I understand that when subs get large enough, groupthink emerges; people voting up/down not based on whether a comment contributes meaningfully, but whether or not they agree or feel good about it. Thus even constructive minority voices are drowned out.

The reason the splintered subs could be a problem is that it often left the disruptive people to represent entire ideas, for better or for worse. It fractures movements that should otherwise have common goals into smaller and smaller slices that are unwilling to co-operate towards otherwise shared goals.

The one that comes to mind for me is r/childfree. It started out as a resource for those who'd chosen a child-free life to find support, collate a list of recommended doctors that recognised body autonomy (its often very difficult to get sterilised, especially if you're younger and/or don't already have several children), how the workforce treated them differently for being child-free (such as expecting them to cancel their plans and sacrifice their time off for parents on short notice), impact on their social lives, etc.'

However, over time it stopped being pro childfree lifestyle choices, and support for a group that is often seen as 'selfish'; and started becoming anti child lifestyle choices. The frontpage became mostly rants, filled with terms like 'crotchfruit', 'breeder', etc. What was once a community of a minority lifestyle trying to find support and legitimacy gave way to anger and tribalism.

Eventually enough of the users that consider choosing to have children to be an equally valid lifestyle choice - merely one they'd chosen not to live - slowly started lurking, unsubbing, or otherwise becoming invisible. Anti-child/'breeder' rhetoric became more and more prevalent. Eventually, r/truechildfree was founded to do what r/childfree used to - collate resources and support for those who have chosen a child-free life in a world where children are considered 'opt out'. Thus childfree users split into pro-child and anti-child tribes.

Which is lovely for r/truechildfree and its users (I am child-free, but I like children; I just recognise I am not equipped to raise them). But it meant that the largest and most visible sub, r/childfree, became almost only child-haters, and an already maligned community often considered 'selfish' is now represented by absolutists that are no longer willing to respect people who disagree.

I understand that it is the nature of humanity, once pushed, to push back. I understand why those who see mistreatment in the workplace or socially for their choice to be child free would be upset, same as anything we hold close to our hearts. That pain is why the r/childfree support group came to exist in the first place.

But it is diversity of opinion that makes discussion so interesting, that allows us opportunity for growth, that has us looking at the ways we are similar instead of fighting over the ways we are different.

I think the anger of those in the new r/childfree is real, valid, legitimate.
I think the users of r/truechildfree's discomfort with how that anger was displayed is also real, valid, legitimate.

I wish we'd looked for a better way to handle it than for letting communities devolve into absolutism, though. Whatever your reasons for not choosing to have children, you still deal with the same stigma; it's a shame to have people who are struggling against the same chains to schism over the metal they're made of.

[–] SterlingVapor@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What you're describing is polarization within a community transforming it into an echo chamber, driving out much of the community. Sure, truechildfree formed out of people who still wanted a community based around that aspect of themselves, but they're not the reason for the split - they're a symptom. For every user that made the journey to truechildfree, there's probably 3-10 that just unsubbed, and another 5 that just stopped participating

My personal example is AITA. It started off as a group judgement based on the morality of the situation, but in the last few years people have become obsessed with "rights". I actually got tempbanned for a situation where a douche told a woman that by joining trivia night in a small town bar she was ruining guys night. I responded to someone saying "IDK why your bf wasn't happy about how you handled it", and I basically said "yeah, he's the asshole, but clearly this is extremely important to him, and saying screw you I have every right to be here while he storms out didn't just ruin his night, it soured the evening for his friends who tried to stop him. That's not going to make you any friends in your new town, and a little compassion could've diffused the situation". It's hard to put into words (and that's just the most salient example, I probably got more negative karma there than everywhere else put together), but the community moved from what's the right thing to do into what's your legal rights

As far as I know, there's no trueAITA - the community just morphed into something I find toxic. The nuance was gone, and it became something very different to the sub I loved participating in. I almost unsubbed, but instead I mostly just would start writing a comment before deleting it and moving on.

I think fractured, smaller communities help with this more than anything. Humans generally adjust their morality based on their peers - and the bigger the community, the more the loudest voices begin to feel like they're expressing the opinion of the majority.

If 10% of a large community upvotes a certain viewpoint, it takes all of the top slots. It's a weakness of the popularity-based ranking system - a relatively small voting block easily dominates the discussion. The moderates just ignore it, because they disagree but not enough to actually fight it out

But force people together in a smaller, more diverse group, and they moderate each other. The trick is, you can't do it through polarization - you can't fragment a community based on beliefs or you get echo chambers.

You just have to throw people together and make them talk it out. Opinions naturally balance towards the mean when the groups are smaller, and the most cohesive voices dominate when the group becomes large

[–] Manticore@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Thanks for sharing your perspective with me, I really enjoyed reading it!

You raised an interesting point, the polarising of r/AITA, and its something I've noticed a few times... I now have a theory:

Personal experiences are far more likely to move towards emotional extremes.

Emotionally-invested people reach points of 'black and white morality' as they get larger, labelled as moral or immoral based on each viewer's personal perspective.

I'm not saying our emotions are bad - if anything, many people are martyrs from their own emotional neglect - rather that many of us have not learned how to feel emotion authentically without treating them as objective judgements that justify action. (eg: this happened, I feel angry, therefore you wronged me, therefore I can defend myself, etc)

Humans are empathetic, which is truly wonderful. But we have two types of empathy:

  • affective empathy is our brain's mirror neurons, feeling emotion in response to others' visible feelings. I see you feel sad, so I feel sad for you. It's innate.
  • cognitive empathy is a social skill, one facet of emotional maturity. I recognise that if this were to happen, then somebody in your situation may feel sad, and I understand why. It's learned, primarily in childhood as modelled by our parents.

So, back to your example of r/AITA - the NAH and ESH ratings are likely only being used by those engaging with cognitive empathy, (hopefully) recognising possible biases and advocating for communication that will satisfy both, as if they are a third party observing.

But for those who engage with their affective empathy, they project themselves into the story - if the story is evocative, they'll readily side with OP. If the other's experience angers them, they'll readily call them out. They're not here to offer perspective - only judgement.

So what does that mean for communities that want to prevent polarisation?

Haha, fuck if I know, I mostly just find the topic interesting and enjoy having a space to explore it. But I have a couple ideas, and would be curious to hear yours?

On Reddit, we see this black/white emotional judgement in upvotes/downvotes - though they are intended for whether a comment contributes something, they're often used to define whether a comment is moral according to the voter's values. Without downvotes, a comment that is bigoted can still be blocked/reported; but with them, a comment that says I think Witcher 3 is boring because- can be buried.

r/AITA also encourages a degree of absolutism by boiling down rulings to three letters, and groupthink by drawing an ultimate conclusion based on which one is most popular rather than presenting a table graph. Users can feel just and righteous - standing up for victim OP, or standing up for their victim.

So I don't know if the problem is preventable, it's a humanities issue; but I would consider some of the following:

  • no downvoting system. It's rarely used in good faith; comments that don't contribute that be reported instead. Comments that are engaging will still rise over comments that are not.
  • active diverse moderation. Hopefully with a diverse enough mod team it will slow homogenisation. eg: a mod that likes children will push for rules that discourage/ban anti-child language; a mod that doesn't like children will push for a platform that encourages/allows those struggling to vent. Together they may find guidelines that emotionally validates struggle without perpetuating hate.
  • smaller communities, like you said. Subs like r/childfree are trying to be resource communities (the list of doctors, advice, etc) and have good reason for being large, but social communities are probably better off kept smaller. eg: if they made a r/childfreesupport for venting and emotional validation.

Also, for those of you who read to the end, I really appreciate it. I know I ramble about stuff I find interesting, and despite editing out a bunch of waffle I know this is still really long. Would enjoy reading your equally long responses lol

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[–] SaucyGoodness@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's a bit hard to subscribe to different instances if you're on a separate server etc. I hope it gets easier. Once you're subscribed though, it feels like reddit pretty much. Just hope the saints that post content start using Lemmy.

[–] araquen@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, it is a bit of a challenge. What I did was go to here: https://kbin.social/m/fediverse/t/4331 and find a community that I had as a subreddit. In the upper right corner, there is a blue dialog box and at the bottom there is an identifier. You copy that identifier, then go to your home server, go to search and paste that identifier. One of the search results should be that server, and you can then just hit “subscribe.”

It’s the same with Mastodon.

That said, if your server shows a listing of Communities, you might be able to subscribe from that list. Beehaw offers that.

[–] CaptainBlagbird@lemmy.one 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It would be really useful if you could set your home instance and then have a direct link for adding/joining the communities that way. It's still quite annoying to do all manually.

Or that all (subscribed?) servers automatically be notified and thus updated when a new community is created on another server.

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[–] songblues99@lemmy.fmhy.ml 20 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I'll admit, I'm part of that exodus.

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[–] 1993_toyota_camry@beehaw.org 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Beehaw is getting hammered with traffic and is really slow today.

They've really turned it around over the past few hours though. Fast as hell now.

[–] ngwoo@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm still really struggling to get posts to actually submit.

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[–] treebeard@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago

I've been watching the stats since the blackout announcement. According to the Lemmy page on the federation info stats site, Lemmy gained about 10,000 users just last night.

[–] DRx@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

I’ve tried 10ish alts today… Lemmy so far has my vote for best alt, others probably feel the same

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[–] CoachDom@lemmy.blahaj.zone 41 points 1 year ago (7 children)

It's such a shame - I used Reddit for many years and found so many helpful people that helped me with many things - fixing my motorbike, improving my 3D prints or saving my plants. I hope we can establish similar kind of community in the Fediverse.

I guess that's what we get for trusting too much in a company - decentralised open source software is way to go. Even if somebody in this particular instance will go fucking insane and will decide to raise it to the ground, whatever, the project lives on and you can just go somewhere else.

[–] WatTyler@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's the thing this last week has made me realize: it's so unjust that the 'owners' of Reddit are completely unable to see that the only value they have is what the community provides. Their sense of entitlement, when it is us who are responsible for their $X hundred-million valuation is startling.

[–] mcc@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No they see it, and I can see how they have to make money to support their operations. Lemmy will have similar problems and we will have to pitch in. Bu that's fine, let's talk and let's figure something out. You don't just shut the door and command people to pay up.

[–] WatTyler@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 1 year ago

That's the point I'm making. I would have been 100% behind justified pricing changes to maintain the site. But like you said, that's never what that was.

[–] selzAm@fedia.io 9 points 1 year ago

So much this! Luckily i got the ins and outs of tuning and fixing a 3d printer. Got my car fixed, helped others fix theirs. Learned how to lose a couple of pounds, got motivated to run, and take care of my plants!

Decentralized systems for the win! Resonates with me soooo much!!!

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[–] heartlessevil@lemmy.one 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

I'm curious about why the most popular subreddits going private would stress out their servers. Wouldn't that reduce load?

They might be getting DDoSed.

Another possibility is that many of the closed subreddits link to a single thread in Save3rdpartyapps for an explanation. That page was returning gateway timeouts over the last few days. Since it has tens of thousands of comments, the sorting algorithm might be timing out from people visiting that particular page.

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[–] knighthawk0811@lemmy.one 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the servers don't know what to do when ads outnumber content 36 to 1

[–] 666dollarfootlong@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They celebrate, of course

[–] lowleveldata@programming.dev 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can't have a black out if the site is not online points to temple

[–] ScorpionFrog@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Double blackout

[–] camelCaseGuy@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

I'm still incredibly surprised that by taking closing communities you get your servers down. Usually it should be the other way around, but god dammit they screwed that infra somehow, somewhere.

[–] deo@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

"What we had today wasn't a complete drop in traffic, engagement, and a resulting significant downturn in the number of served ads, caused by the major boycott we're in the middle of, guys, that was just a major outage. We still have great expectations for the IPO."

-- spez, probably

[–] Kalkaline@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago

How do you short a stock that isn't public yet? Asking for a friend.

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[–] kickinitlegit@lemmy.one 14 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Makes me wonder if it's on purpose to hide the blackout...

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[–] ghostalmedia@beehaw.org 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I wonder what is going to happen on Lemmy when we don't have reddit stories to rant about

[–] McBinary@midwest.social 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's gonna take a bit. Most are actually 'grieving' a loss right now, and just want to talk about it.

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[–] MrMcNamerica@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago

Lol and, I cannot stress this enough, lmao.

[–] SacredHeartAttack@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

this is the "and find out" stage

[–] flibbertigibbet@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago

I would be hilarious if this were their shitty app ddosing their servers, because they drove all the subreddits away.

[–] fuser@quex.cc 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)
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[–] Grenfur@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago

Reddit has entered the "Fuck round and find out" portion of their journey.

[–] zombuey@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

literally blocked reddit on adguard and moved here heh

[–] nii236@lemmy.jtmn.dev 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The blackout is pretty dang short though, inconsequential I reckon

[–] MorksEgg@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Not all subreddits are following the 2 day blackout rule. Some have gone private indefinitely and others are going dark until they think matters are being addressed reasonably.

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[–] terribleplan@lemmy.nrd.li 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I wonder if this is coincidental, or if some people are taking it upon themselves to DDoS them or something. I hope it is the former as that would be absolutely hilarious, and can't be used as further justification for their continuing BS.

[–] EvilColeslaw@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

So. One thing I've noticed is that privated subs on mobile return an error (403 forbidden). I can't help but wonder if they have a crush of mobile users hammering the API over and trying to refresh their favorite sub because they can't see the message explaining that it's been privated.

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[–] Domiku@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Perhaps they didn't account for some weird recursive issues on the backend. I remember reading about when Twitter took down Trump's account, they had to ensure that all of the millions of dead links of people's likes, retweets, quotes, etc. didn't crash the system.

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[–] Amiral_Poitou@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

Oh no 😱

Anyway.

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