@ajsadauskas @fediverse Why would existing :fediverse: servers waste breath to support Bluesky's protocol? Let Bluesky implement ActivityPub - should not go backwards π€ Otherwise why even bother?
this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023
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@gytis @ajsadauskas @fediverse
agree also and want to remind "How Google killed XMPP" story
https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
@aidasb @gytis @ajsadauskas @fediverse
https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
Though smart phone is since 1998, not 2005. ARM based from about 2002.
See also SMS vs Google vs Apple iMessage.
Also Mail on Android isn't. It's using Google servers with your settings. You can install real email clients on Android. Also Google has "taken over" SMS & MMS on Android phones.
Don't adopt AT or negotiate with any platform. Let them adopt AP and don't give them a seat on development. Google is wrecking Web Browsers.
No point in adapting to their protocol, that's for sure.
I don't know, account portability would be kind of cool. With ActivityPub with a ban or server shutdown, your account is just gone.
Thats just one feature, might be possible to implement in AP.
@ajsadauskas @fediverse
> Would you be open to the idea of Mastodon, Lemmy, Pixelfed, and other Fediverse platforms adopting the AT protocol in order to federate with it?
Hell no. Let them adopt AP which is a standard.
As someone who's used both, the way federation works on Bluesky/Atproto is very different to how ActivityPub works. It's very much a backend thing, letting that do the heavy lifting and prevent the user from worrying about it as much as you have to here, rather than trying to make its fediverse a whole experience.
As for Tumblr, there was talk about bringing it to the fediverse and Wordpress themselves have already allowed users of their hosted blog service to opt-in to this, but have not done it for Tumblr. And Threads? Well, there was a pact to fediblock Threads because of its ties to Facebook, so there's that.
Unfortunately it seems like development on Tumblr has been reduced to a skeleton crew. I wouldn't hold my breath for ActivityPub integration on that front now.
Yeah :\
They did mention that they were planning to make Tumblr open-source, which might've been why they said that. I could see ActivityPub integration there in that event.
@Flaky @ajsadauskas yeah I think people are being ridiculous acting like this is some plot to destabilize mastodon and not genuinely trying to improve the flaws in activitypub, whatever their other motivations may be
@ajsadauskas @fediverse
I expect connecting with BlueSky would do more harm than good, so effort spent making it happen seems not worth it
If we talking about the complete structure of the fediverse changing to connect to a single service (like abandoning Activity Pup and instead using a closed protocol that is controlled only by one company), then definitely Yes that is the worst idea even.
But since many fediverse services will simply not be able to use Blue Sky's protocol, because it is designed for a very limited use case, I don't even see why should talk about this.
However if Blue sky would adapt to the fediverse. It would only be a win for us. If they decide to not play by the rules they will be band. Fediverse is very robust and we don't need to be afraid of anything as long as we stick too our basic principles.
The path forward I think would be some sort of a bridge service. Think of it as a translation layer that could take in updates from both ActivityPub and AT, and present to the opposing side like it were native. Something similar was developed for nostr to communicate with the fediverse, and it seems at least feasible in this case as well.
Let's have this conversation once BlueSky is actually open
I would like to see some sort of bridge built to allow communication between AT protocol services and ActivityPub protocol services.
Hubzilla will support it for sure
Bluesky doesn't even have an app available for us who don't have access to the google store. So it is a no go for me.
Seems like there is a lot of people in this thread that are confused about BlueSky federating even means. BlueSky's plans for federation have nothing to do with the fediverse. It's about enabling federation with other AT protocol services, including self-hosting a personal data server.
@ajsadauskas @fediverse Is this part of the Adopt, Extend, Extinguish model? They could adopt the fediverse protocols, but instead chose to implement their own so they would be in control. What does that mean in the long term?
Or is this a mis-take on the issue?
I can't talk about the others involved in BlueSky, but I think Jack Dorsey is genuniely regretful about how Twitter turned out and truthful in his intentions to make a decentralized alternative. I wouldn't equate BlueSky with the rest of Big Tech. The XMPP creator sitting on the board and the CEO being someone who worked on Zcash, they can't be that bad.
they canβt be that bad.
Sure they can.
If they're just a little bit better, it's an improvement. If we have to win through salami slicing, so be it.
Federation alone would be a massive improvement already. Because it practically infinitely increases competition to do better, since there was zero before.
It's all about setting up incentive structures so the ones in power and even the biggest assholes are compelled to do the right thing. And federation is a giant step in that direction.
what makes you say there was zero competition before?
the CEO being someone who worked on Zcash
I wouldn't consider any link to the cryptocurrency world a positive thing.
it's a privacy coin. not a very good one, but still. They've been around for long, so relatively credible when it comes to crypto.
I get why people have soured to crypto, but secure private cryptos like Monero is by far the best solution for digital money.
Because banks and governments have proven time and time again that they can't be trusted with money. They screw over the working class every time.
@ajsadauskas @fediverse @LaQuadrature's article had pondered on the risk of being phagocyted by Threads here: https://www.laquadrature.net/en/2023/08/23/is-metas-arrival-on-the-fediverse-good-news/
This came to digital blows over whether to federate with Threads not so long ago. A LOT of us said hell no to letting Meta's data vampirism and sociopathic surveillance back into our networks.
Mo' protocols mo' problems.
What does the AT protocol offer software already using ActivityPub?
I go where the people are and the technology serves me best. For now, itβs ActivityPub. If I end up liking AT and most people are on it, I will be there too.
For now we only have one instance on BlueSky but I'm deffinitly moving to my own self hosted one (when they enable us to do so)
Once they've transferred governance to some other entity, sure. That's gonna take years though, they said so themselves. Standardizing a protocol isn't something that can be done overnight, and that's fully their intention with ATProto.
I'm keenly interested in the protocol, but I also question its flexibility as to the content it can be used to post and distribute. That's something we'll have to wait for federation to come to see people start playing with. If it becomes a standard, governed by a non-partisan body, and is flexible to a variety of content types, I see no reason to stay with ActivityPub except that the software's already here.
@ajsadauskas @fediverse I'd quite like to be able to link up with people I miss who are on other platforms.
i'm not qualified to answer regarding the tech, but the more interoperability we can achieve between all platforms, the better
@ajsadauskas @fediverse my understanding is that the models and design principles are completely different between AT and AP.
But even if technical and philosophical hurdles could be overcome, I think adding 2M Extremely Online users to fedi would be a wash; it seems like most people pick either fedi or bsky for cultural reasons and smooshing the two together would just make everyone unhappy.
@ajsadauskas @fediverse
...on the other hand, isekai-ing ten thousand German FOSS reply guys into the World of Shitposting and Discourse* would result in some entertaining fireworks, so who's to say?
* Oops I accidentally a Homestuck reference (and I don't even like Homestuck). Clearly the platform I spend too much time on isn't fedi or bsky - it's Tumblr.
@ajsadauskas @fediverse they have no interest in it other than scraping and selling data, and using the broader fediverse to boost their own numbers to make it appear like a successful platform.
There is no benefit to us to do it, only benefit to them. I question the motives. Who benefits if not us? Why?
Why would we let a money-motivated, privacy-hating horde federate?