this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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Slovenia Pushes on With Pricey Nuclear Project to Phase Out Coal (www.bloomberg.com)
submitted 1 year ago by lntl@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
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The final figure will be significantly higher. Asked if the figure was likely to exceed €10 billion, he said: “Yes, we are talking about such magnitude.”

You can't take money with you, but we will leave an atmosphere behind

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[–] NoiseColor@startrek.website 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Slovenia has a history of getting into extremely expensive projects that become many times as expensive with time and taking many times longer as expected. This is a great project to repeat such history even without being specifically Slovenian. All the last nuclear reactors in europe have been delayed, some not even finished after decades.

Slovenia is a small country with only 2 million people that is not wealthy. If this projects is not heavily subsidised at the EU level at least with affordable loans and guarantees, and if this doesn't become a perfect model project of modern nuclear power plant construction, and if energy situation doesn't change in the time of the construction, , it's going to be extremely painful for all Slovenians for generations. Those are very big ifs. The risk is incomprehensible for this little country that has not even been able to make any significant update to it's outdated energy grid in the last 30 years. .

[–] FuckyWucky@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

money isn't real, climate is.

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

The rich folks disagree, only because they'd be useless without it.

[–] middlemanSI@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Paywall article

[–] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

While I'm pronuclear we really need to invest in better nuke power tech. Spending billions, mainly due to the risks with current water cooled reactors, is handicapping it. Systems that minimize waste, use passive failsafe systems, etc are needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor

[–] Kushia@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

The ship has sailed on nuclear tech being worthwhile now if you haven't already committed to it and are well underway. Instead, renewables offer a cheaper, safer and much faster return on investment while being ultimately better for the environment. It'll take much more than what is offered by gen IV for that to change.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ngl, this is 100% the sort of project that the EU should support in its member nations

[–] Kushia@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Why?

Renewables are cheaper, faster to deliver and better over all for the environment. There's every reason to believe this will just be a money sink that may not even see the light of day eventually.

[–] realitista@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Renewables are also intermittent and strongly tied to geography. Geography is especially limiting in much of Europe which isn't particularly sunny, and where much of the low hanging fruit for wind, geothermal, and hydro has already been tapped.

And even if you were able to keep building it, you will soon run into the storage problem which is still potentially more costly, especially when trying to provide baseline power for the whole year, where it's buildout may have to be many times more expensive to save power for months than a baseline solution like nuclear which can provide steady power all the time.

So, some mix of baseline solutions like nuclear and intermittent solutions like renewables will be needed to completely phase out coal, oil, and gas which provide our baseline power today.

[–] Kushia@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Slovenia isn't a landlocked country and has all the same options that others do.

[–] Ooops@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

And even if you were able to keep building it, you will soon run into the storage problem which is still potentially more costly

I will tell you a secret: Nuclear power doesn't work without storage either. That's just something they will not tell you as that's their biggest pro-nuclear/anti-renewable argument.

Nuclear is expensive and running the amount necessary in winter is only viable because you have an overproduction most of the year to export. But when everyone runs either on nuclear, nuclear and renewables or renewables and storage, there is no demand most of year (as everyone is overproducing) and also nobody to import from in a few especially cold weeks in winter (so you need even more nuclear power you won't need most of the year). That's completely unaffordable unless you put in storage in place to cover some of your winter demand and export time-independent when there is demand in other countries (which is why French models for 2050+ plan with huge capacities of hydrogen production - not the most efficient way of storage, but good for export).

where it’s buildout may have to be many times more expensive to save power for months

Actually weeks. Wind and solar are quite complementary. So you only need to cover the rare circumstance of cloudy and windless... which doesn't happen more than may 3 weeks a year, barely more than a few days in a row (in a lot of countries even less if you geographically diversify).

[–] JesseoftheNorth@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Nuclear energy is backed by big business and a lot of money. It’s a big cash cow and there is a lot of money and effort spent to manufacture public support for it, and they use troll farms to push their agenda, no doubt. Am I the only one that finds it a little suspicious that it’s always the same few talking points whenever the topic is mentioned? Whenever there’s a discussion about investing in renewable energy, there are always nuke bros popping up, bombarding the thread, derailing the discussion.

[–] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago

So "You support X so you must be in the pocket of big business! But I support Y and I'm innocent and pure."? I find the same talking points with solar and wind too.

[–] lntl@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Whenever there’s a discussion about investing in renewable energy, there are always nuke bros popping up, bombarding the thread, derailing the discussion.

but this isn't a discussion about renewables, the topic is Slovenia's new nuclear plant which they're building to end coal consumption for power generation.

in fact, what you describe is exactly what is happening here to nuclear

[–] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's weird that every time you read about nuclear power the truth hasn't changed? Do you also find it suspicious that every time math is discussed 1+1 continues to equal 2? Perhaps Big Business (who?) are employing troll farms whenever the topic is mentioned?

[–] Ooops@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Funny how you equate 1+1=2 with the fairy tales totally unironically talked about regarding nuclear power and renewables constantly.

The simple truth is: Countries in Europe planning to build nuclear are failing their energy transition right now. Because none is building enough capacity to cover just the minimal base load for the projected demand in ~2 decades (that will massively increase because of electrification/decarbonisation). Why don't they plan enough? Because no one knows how to even foot that bill. (PS: France is close if they actually build 14 new big reactors... not the 6 they are openly talking about with 8 optional ones - the full set of 14. But even in basically THE nuclear country in Europe you can't tell the population honestly how massive the required investions are.) That is actually simply math...

[–] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 year ago

I agree with the "simple truth" EU governments are planning infrastructure based on profitability and not on actual needs. The result is that coal use will continue to increase, renewables will be "scaled back" and a few thousand people will get richer in exchange for the destruction of the environment and eventually massive die-offs of not only plants and animals, but humans too.

When you are a government, the "bill" doesn't actually matter. The amount of money building a nuclear reactor costs is trivial compared to the size of these economies. Germany is almost 5trillion, France is almost 3trillion. If a nuclear raector after all it's cost overruns and other shit cost 1Billion a year for 10years to build that is 1/3rd of %0.01 of Frances GDP. The money exists, the prioritization does not.

[–] JesseoftheNorth@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

“No, u”

[–] crt0o@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Why do you think renewables are better for the environment? Nuclear is very clean and produces next to no emissions. In comparison, solar panels have a production process which produces considerable emissions, once they fail (which is in around 25 - 30 yrs), they basically turn into toxic waste. Similar goes for wind turbines, but they also totally ruin the landscape, since roads have to be built in order to access and maintain them. Additionally they're not viable everywhere and look ugly af.

[–] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

cheaper

Cost, as in dollars, can no longer be a consideration if you actually care about the environment.

[–] Kushia@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Renewables are better for the environment though.

[–] agarorn@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So 10 years to build!? Is that realistic?

[–] Kushia@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Nuclear power takes a long ass time to build which is one of the many downsides of it.

[–] Ghyste@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

Well done Slovenia. Take the lead on proper choices.