this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2023
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[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

HS2 is a story of the incompetence of British industry, the corruption in the British political system, and a complete failure to achieve the initial goals of the project (to connect Northern England to London).

It's depressing how much Britain's construction industry has been gutted by decades of neoliberal policy, it's depressing how the land that has already been acquired for use in HS2 is now going to be sold off for pennies on the dollar, and it's depressing how this will only serve to further the wealth gap between the two biggest urban areas and the rest of the country.

[–] JoBo@feddit.uk 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

the initial goals of the project (to connect Northern England to London).

This was never the goal. Northern England is already connected to London. But the trains to London use the same trains as local commuter trains, which don't work as a reliable commuter service because they have to squeeze into the gaps between fast trains, and get held up every time a fast train is running late.

HS2 is about giving the fast trains their own track so that local trains can function properly.

[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thanks for the correction!

From what I gathered, though, the high-speed connection got support from Northern England only because of the connections up to Manchester and Leeds lol.

[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

China's entire high speed network (42000km) was funded on only $900 billion of debt... Yet HS2 is estimated to cost $130 billion and California HSR $128 billion. For comparison, the Beijing-Shanghai high speed rail cost $38 billion (inflation-adjusted) and the Beijing-Tianjin line (China's first HSR) cost about $3.3 billion (inflation-adjusted).

London-Birmingham is a distance of about 160km, Los Angeles-San Francisco is a distance of about 560km, Beijing-Shanghai is a distance of about 1060km, and Beijing-Tianjin is a distance of about 110km (all straight-line).

Edit: another comparison, Japan's Chuo Shinkansen, which is pioneering high-speed maglev technology at scale and involves an absolutely astronomical amount of tunneling, is estimated to cost only $60 billion for 266km.

[–] mondoman712@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Just to note, the 130 billion figure for HS2 isn't just for the London to Birmingham leg.

Also there's a lot of things that went into making it expensive: a lack of high speed expertise, extra tunnels to satisfy nimbys, the government insisting on low risk contracts and changing plans constantly, etc

[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

You know what, that's a good point.

However, Japan's Chuo Shinkansen is like 90% tunneled or something crazy and the rest of Europe (and China and Japan) has a ton of high speed expertise to draw from.

[–] what_is_a_name@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In general. Construction can be made very cheap in dictatorships.

The other thing making things cheap is scale.

China did a lot of things well, but especially on point 1 - we need to hold the line.

Lots of projects are expensive in the west because we care about nature, quality, worker safety and the communities impacted by the work (but also because this all opens the doors to malicious bad faith legal battles that make projects stupid expensive)

[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Japan isn't a dictatorship, nor are France or Spain.

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 2 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


A future Labour government would not be able to easily reverse Rishi Sunak’s decision to scrap the northern leg of HS2 as he has “spitefully” authorised the sale of properties that were subject to compulsory purchase orders on part of the route.

Steve Rotheram, the mayor of the Liverpool city region, said the move killed HS2 “stone dead” and would “tie any future government’s hands and make the delivery of HS2 for the north all but impossible”.

Keir Starmer, the Labour leader, on Thursday refused to commit to building HS2, telling ITV News Meridian: “What I can’t do is stand here now they have taken a wrecking ball to this project, and say that we will simply reverse it.

Mark Harper, the transport secretary, also conceded on Thursday that paying off contracts previously awarded for the cancelled HS2 sections would cost hundreds of millions of pounds.

Gareth Dennis, a railway engineer and writer, said the decision to sell off the land was motivated by “spite” and was, in effect, “salting the earth” to make it extremely difficult for Labour to restart the project.

He denied that the line would be reduced to a mere “shuttle service” between London and Birmingham, insisting that many more people would be helped by paring back plans for the project and boosting other transport schemes instead.


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