332
Mozilla Foundation - Tell Amazon to Fix this Big Security Flaw in Ring Doorbells
(foundation.mozilla.org)
The flaw: Amazon
this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
332 points (98.5% liked)
Technology
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Sign a petition? How about not use Amazon smart home products.
It’s like signing a petition to ask McDonald’s to use real ingredients in their food. Why bother, don’t eat it.
I have a hundred other real problems.
I do both
There are a lot of things that don't affect me directly, but I might vote/sign a petition for it. Even if it doesn't actually work out in my favor, more people see it and learn about the issue.
If there's a petition going around or news about the number of people that signed, and someone was already on the fence, it might act as the straw that gets people to dump Amazon smart home products.
There's also the case where these devices are collecting data on you even if you don't own one. What if you go to a friend's place, or a friend is talking about something you're working on, or even if you walk by a house that has a smart doorbell?
Not saying everyone NEEDS to do this, because you need to have the time and mental energy to deal with it. Just saying that there's still value in doing so even if you don't use the products yourself.
it really sucks to have to walk past these cameras... no consent needed apparently but the privacy implications are huge
You're generally in a public place. At least in the US, you have no expectation of privacy in public. Anyone can record you without your consent
While that might be true, I think some of these expectations and understandings are based on a world that no longer exists.
In the past, you could only be seen by the few people around you. Even when recorded, there was a limited number of people that could see the video. Now some influencer can run up to you and share your reaction with a few hundred million people. On the side of data collection, companies have so much more aggregate data that they can use and abuse. With newer algorithms to analyze that data, they can keep pumping more and more data into it to figure out intimate details about who you are and how you feel about things.
So yea that might be how our laws and social norms are set up now, but we don't have to stick to it if it doesn't make sense anymore.
How long in the past are you talking? Ring cameras are basically just cheap CCTV cameras which have been around for an incredibly long time. You’re complaining you can’t walk in front of people’s houses without being recorded I guess, but how long have you been complaining about not being able to walk past your gas station or Walmart?
It’s a larger scale, but honestly private property deserves the protection more.
Amazon sucks though, ubiquiti is where it’s at.
ETA: I know you’re not the person who originally posted this complaint, but since you’re defending their point then I assume you also agree with it.
Ring doorbells are the flaw.
But they were purposely made this way precisely to spy on users and create a system of mass espionage in addition to profits.
The last 10 years:
Quick, race to install cameras, voice recorders and locks connected to the Internet made by companies who have demonstrated no higher purpose than to sell your data and certainly couldn't give two fucks what is stolen.
/Surprised Pikachu
Almost like we forget Alexa, Google,Microsoft and any other company are not your friends and if its free it's because you're the product they're selling.
Is there a fix for de-auth nowadays?
I haven't looked at it for years, but didn't it use to be that devices would listen for a de-auth from any source, meaning that a bad actor could poison any wlan in range?
From my understanding, that's how hotels did it to encourage paying for wifi: If Joe starts a hotspot called JoePhone, their systems would automatically start spamming de-auth for JoePhone.
Unless it got fixed in a 2.4/5GHz revision?
deauth attacks are still a thing, however this is changing with wpa3.
If your router has a setting called "Protected Management Frames" you should enable it ASAP, it's basically encrypted and signed communication for every packet of data, so that your computer basically refuses to trust any deauth signal that doesn't actually originate from the router (massively simplifying here).
Just double checked mine. Abbreviated as PMF, and it's a toggle to turn OFF. Also have been using wpa3 for a while now.
since Amazon owns blink also, does it have the same security flaws?
Ring and Blink are designed differently and run different hardware. However, I would guess that some Blink devices have the same issue. I might be wrong but I think all 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi is vulnerable to deauth
5ghz is also susceptible to deauth.
it's not about the frequency, it's about the protocol. both 2.4 GHz and 5GHz are vulnerable with WPA2 (or worse WEP). WPA3 is not vulnerable
Yeah but what's the exploit
My take:
Take the thing out of the wifi its connected to, it doesn't record anything during that time, and when it's reconnected it doesn't notify of an outage.
Amazon
