this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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The world’s top chess federation has ruled that transgender women cannot compete in its official events for females until an assessment of gender change is made by its officials.

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[–] NewEnglandRedshirt@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Wow. The argument against trans women in sports is already unscientific enough. Why is chess even split into gendered categories? This just makes zero sense.

[–] binkster@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It is generally not, most tournaments anyone can enter. However, there are women-only tournaments because for a lot of social and historical reasons, men dominate the open tournaments.

Interesting side-note fact on the power of social norms: if a woman and man play without knowing each other’s gender the woman will be more likely to win than she would if either party is made aware.

[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

All the more reason to include trans and nonbinary people then. Blur the lines. Drag should also be encouraged.

[–] Squids@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Fuck it we should do the masked singer thing for chess. Masked grandmaster!

[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

Seriously, a lot of people would play better chess if they weren't intimidated by their opponent. Unless you consider headology part of the game, the way it is in poker and Cripple-Mister-Onion.

[–] Lmaydev@programming.dev 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I believe it's done mainly to encourage women to play. More than any genetic differences like other sports.

I feel like as it makes very little difference, so letting trans people play either doesn't really matter.

[–] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Except it's going to discourage AMAB women from playing, so that excuse for this bigoted policy doesn't hold water

[–] Siegfried@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How is gender even relevant in chess?

[–] nutsack@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

it isn't. the main league and FIDE scoring have no such restrictions. the women's scoring and events were created separately because chess is heavily dominated by men for whatever reason. i think trans women can compete in the main events which are not gender restricted, just as non-trans women are welcome to.

[–] elscallr@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Why are cheese tournaments even gendered to begin with?

[–] Squids@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because different genders taste cheese differently obviously duh. Don't want to give them NBs an unfair advantage in the Roquefort round

(Serious answer - I think it's to try and combat entrenched sexism in the sport? There aren't many women in chess and by making a space explicitly for them you hopefully create a safe space that can encourage more women to take up the pursuit. As it's a social perspective thing, AGAB therefore really shouldn't matter because the point is to go "look women!" Not "women are inherently better/worse and so we should segregate on gender")

[–] elscallr@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Because different genders taste cheese differently obviously duh.

I've heard it is possible to fascinate a woman by giving her a piece of cheese.

[–] Sarsoar@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

To add to squids answer: There isn't a segregated mens and womens category. There is an open category and a women's only category.

What happened in the open category is that because the societal pressures and social constructs that disincentivized young girls to play, women weren't placing high in the open category. (Because top players end up being top players because they started when thwy were 5) This leads to a feedback loop where young girls see less women in the sport and get reinforced that it is not for them so don't pick it up at a young age, so less persue it and get good, so less women are seen at high levels, etc.

So then comes the women's category to combat women not feeling like they belong in that space. Women can compete in both the open and women's categories.

But because it is an intellectual thing mostly, barring transgender women is ridiculous. In athletic sports you could almost try to argue that a woman that went through male puberty could be stronger(ignoring how estrogen weakens them and they cannot compete in the men's category anymore). You could try to make that argument in athletic sports (and it is a different discussion to this) and almost seem logically consistently on the surface level if you don't think about it any further than your fox news talking points, but what is the argument here? If a woman went through a male puberty they were possibly socialized as male and weren't told as a kid that chess wasn't for them and so they have an intellectual advantage over cis women?

I don't get it. It seems like, just with athletic sports, it is not about the sanctity of the sport or about fairness, it is about banning trans people from public spaces and policing what women can be.

[–] jmp242@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 year ago

Unlike many other sports, I honestly don't see how chess is impacted by gender, nor why we'd have different leagues other than legacy historical strangeness. If I were king for a day, I'd just get rid of gendered leagues for chess. Everyone plays in an open league.

[–] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

So what's their plan when someone accuses their opponent of being AMAB to try to get them DQ'd?

[–] Candelestine@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Didn't even know there were separate women's tournaments. Don't really see the point, honestly, chess isn't like Greco-Roman wrestling or something where the gender disparity is pretty significant.

But, whatever. On the whole this strikes me as an actually reasonable compromise, so long as they do remain willing to conduct these investigations and reassignments without too much feet-dragging.

[–] BiNonBi@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 1 year ago

analysis of individual cases that could take up to two years.

They are already getting ready to drag their feet. The other policies announced here aren't much better. In particular:

Holders of women’s titles who change their genders to male would see those titles “abolished,” the federation said

There's no reason for that. What does transitioning have to do with past titles. It all reeks of transphobia.

[–] skymtf@pricefield.org 5 points 1 year ago

I don't really agree here, as a trans women myself I face issues like sexism just as cis women do, and depending on how well a trans women passes she might face additional issues with transphobia. Chess is a sport of strategy and there is no science that somehow suggest AMAB people have more brain power than AFAB people.

[–] BoneDemonBoofer@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago

In what world is this a reasonable compromise? Your second paragraph also directly contradicts your first paragraph. You don't see why there are gender based divisions, but also we should reinforce those divisions and in addition force transwomen to submit to "gender investigations? "

I'm just baffled tbh.