this post was submitted on 12 May 2022
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My opinion is that sex work should be legal. It would enable involuntary virgins to get a good sex experience for payment; they will be guaranteed a good sex experience with a sex worker: no harassment, good education, and a fun time.

Sex work gets shamed by ~~people~~ puritans because of payment for sex and it's "sinful"; yet these same ~~persons~~ puritans get and have sex for free out of "passion" or marriage; they also discriminate against minorities in sec.

EDIT: Apparently there is an implied difference between sex work and prostitution. I mean sex work.

EDIT 2: I messed up the writing of my post. My real opinion is located in this comment:

Oof. I didn't realize there was way more exploitation than just sex traffickers. It totally makes sense though; sex trades are a product of capitalist exploitation and the existence of private property. (Naturally under communism, the prevalence of sex trades would be heavily reduced.)

It seems like I couldn't communicate my ideas properly beforehand. I don't want people in the sex trade to be criminalized; I want pimps and johns to be criminalized.

Only a few hours ago: I wanted to support a sex trade industry that didn't involve rapes or rely on economic coercion. I just wanted disabled people, who keep getting discriminated out of sex,^[Sexual Ableism]^[Dating With Disability: How to Rise Above Sexual Ableism]^[Dating with Disability: Choose Your Dreams Over Sexual Ableism] to be able to feel better about their lives; a lack of sex can cause mental health issues in some people (even though this shouldn't happen). (However, having sex probably won't fix the issue, it will just hide the problems until later). Now I feel like shit...

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[–] pH3ra@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Countries where sex work is legal and regulated (Holland, Germany, Canada, Australia...) all registered sensible drops in human traffic, venereal disease spreading and rapes. People sell their bodies for food or money since the dawn of time and always will, like it or not. Keeping it illegal only favors criminal organizations and fodders a culture in which people are not allowed to do what they want with their own body, whether it is selling it, changing it or whatever. Edit: added links to studies made by people smarter than me.

[–] ksynwa@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

A long time ago someone shared a study with me that claimed that legalization of sex work leads to increase in trafficking. Sadly my reddit account is gone so I can't find it anymore.

edit: thank you google scholar

Study: The challenges of fighting sex trafficking in the legalized prostitution market of the Netherlands

The main conclusion is that the screening of brothel owners and the monitoring of the compliance of licensing conditions do not create levels of transparency that enable sex trafficking to be exposed. The prostitution business retains many characteristics of an illegitimate market and the legalization and regulation of the prostitution sector has not driven out organized crime. On the contrary, fighting sex trafficking using the criminal justice system may even be harder in the legalized prostitution sector.

Study: Does Legalized Prostitution Increase Human Trafficking?

This paper has investigated the impact of legalized prostitution on inflows of human trafficking. According to economic theory, there are two effects of unknown magnitude. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution leads to an expansion of the prostitution market and thus an increase in human trafficking, while the substitution effect reduces demand for trafficked prostitutes by favoring prostitutes who have legal residence in a country. Our quantitative empirical analysis for a cross-section of up to 150 countries shows that the scale effect dominates the substitution effect. On average, countries with legalized prostitution experience a larger degree of reported human trafficking inflows.

Plus the source you linked for human trafficking is not a primary source. A lot of sources it links are actually for decriminalization which drastically different from legalization. A bunch of other links like the NYT article are behind paywalls so I couldn't read them.

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[–] j_ming@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

fucked up that arguments being made here is for the buyer rather than the worker/slave.

[–] Catradora_Stalinism@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] southerntofu@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think the rest of the thread has good arguments on the topic, but the main idea is that regulations around sex work mostly impact sex workers and not the client. Even the criminalization of clients results in bad outcomes for the workers, so if you'd like to frame prostitution as a question of workers rights and public health, it's important to center the debate around the experiences and problems of sex workers themselves.

To paraphrase someone else, as long as money exist there will be sex work. The question is what kind of labor conditions do we want for the sex workers?

[–] pH3ra@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Of course regulation comes to both ends: only allowing prostitution to be legal leads to situations like in Thailand or Madagascar, where child prostitution is rampant. In European countries for example, brothels (I use this term for lack of an official one) have strict costumer rules about behaviour, health and hygene.

if you’d like to frame prostitution as a question of workers rights and public health, it’s important to center the debate around the experiences and problems of sex workers themselves

totally agree: in fact when I say "health" I include psichological support.

[–] Echedenyan@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago

Locking this thread as result of the situation here from some users.

[–] Ghast@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago

My opinion is that sex work should be legal.

Yay.

It would enable involuntary virgins to get a good sex experience for payment;

Oh dear...

[–] agertudici@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

90% of the incels I hear from are raging misogynists who vehemently hate women for their ability to withhold a "resource" for money. Combine that with the low social status of sex work (which is not fixable with legislation) and you are just offering these women up to be murdered (which is already the case).

There are a few things legalization of sex work does fix.

  • once it's much easier to access legal adult prostitutes, child prostitutes become significantly less desirable to those that might otherwise seek them out.
  • you can try to weight things in the prostitute's favor by enacting rules that make brothels and pimping a lot harder (although you still need to have a good way for them to hire their own security).
  • It's easier for prostitutes to seek justice from abusive johns if their side of things is perfectly legal.
[–] Catradora_Stalinism@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

weird though, you'd think incels would like prostitutes, they aren't going to get any sex otherwise

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[–] Catradora_Stalinism@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago

under capitalism, legalization and government protection combined with a workers co-op is probably the best they can do

[–] lordofbud@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago

It's no less moral than selling your labor in other ways, hell, it's less harmful to the self than some other forms of labor.

Capitalism makes all labor morally grey to say the least, most of us work because we have to, engaged in jobs and environments we'd prefer not to be in.

My take is, for labor to be moral(I'm not taliking about personal morality, but systemic) our essentials need to be well covered regardless of our work, and the people need systemic assistance moving from one field to another, so that what ever labor one is engaged in doesn't feel like their only choice of participation.

I don't know where sex work fits into my utopia, but I do know I'd prefer, I'm general, that people are only engaged in what they want to engage in.

[–] yxzi@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (9 children)

No one should get control over someone else's body without true consent. Taking money as a bribe does not equal consent. Getting laid should take some effort. Putting money on the table doesn't count as effort.

The thing is that mind and body can't be divided, at least in the long run. Abuse to someone's body is abuse to someone's mind. There is always the risk that people abuse their "right" they "earned" with their dirty money.

It's not the same as rape, but sex without sympathy is mentally unhealthy.

However, paying money to just talk to someone is more acceptable, albeit not necessary in an ideal world.

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[–] tracyspcy@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)
[–] Ghast@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

So other systems didn't have sex work? Feaudalism, theocracy, autocracy, none of them had sex work? This developed only once competitive businesses in the Victorian era began trading?

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