If you want the full control use https://opnsense.org/ on a mini pc or in a VM on your home server.
this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
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Can this work with the "off the shelf" mesh routers.
No, off the shelf routers are usually ARM and opnsense is x86 only.
...or MIPS...
Please don’t host a router on a Hypervisor VM. That does not benefit security. First of all a router is an integral part of the (home) network, therefore it should not be dependent on anything, like a hypervisor. You want to be able to replace or update your server/ hypervisor independently from each other, for example in 5 hrs your router might be still rocking all data, but you would want to upgrade your home server / hypervisor. Furthermore all those OpenWRT, PFsense, OpenSense kernel/ OS hardening is more effective on the hardware itself, especially all RAM/ Memory based security measures. Also if you truly want to be more secure, you use dedicated hardware for multiple reasons, performance is dedicated to only routing/ firewall processing (no other service/ VM can block or slow down packet processing), reducing the attack surface (less software, less attack surface), easier to update.
I bought a mini pc with four Ethernet ports and turned that into a router
This right here. get something cheap, throw opnsense or pfsense on it and start learning. It will probably be incredibly frustrating at first but when it starts to click then it is really fun and rewarding.
I bought an old dell r210ii years ago and threw pfsense on it then swapped to opnsense and could not be happier. It is still in use today, a good 6 years later.
I did mine by just adding some iptables rules to set up NAT. It's all of four commands:
echo "net.ipv4.ip_forward = 1" >> /etc/sysctl.conf
iptables –t nat -s 192.168.0.0/16 –A POSTROUTING –o $wan0 -j MASQUERADE
iptables –A FORWARD –i $wan0 –o $lan0 –m state --state RELATED, ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
iptables –A FORWARD –i $lan0 –o $wan0 –j ACCEPT
Just set $lan0 and $wan0 to your LAN and WAN interfaces. For wifi I've got a couple Unifi access points around the house for good coverage.
Yes, I know IPv6 is better and yadda yadda yadda but I can't remember the addresses let alone type them so I'm not changing anything.
I did this as well, but I'm wondering if it was the wrong call. It's harder to work with firewalls (particularly if docker is involved), and I've struggled with stuff like SyncThing.
Most likely more learning could solve it, but I wonder if I should switch to a dedicated router OS where more support resources are available.
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Noob here. How fast can my LAN be with such a setup?
mine can push a gig around no problem.
As fast as the slowest denominator in your LAN. So give the PC that you're going to host this on a decent Ethernet card and you should be flying.
Everyone has some great recommendations. I didn't see anything about Ubiquiti so I'll throw it out there since I've had a good experience with them. The Dream Machine is for home/small office setups and is fairly inexpensive for what it does: https://store.ui.com/us/en/collections/unifi-dream-router.
Edit: it's now the dream router. They changed the name it seems.
This is interesting, I hadn't seen this from them before and I'm in the market for a new router! Does this play nicely with additional access points?
They work with existing Ubiquiti AP's no problem. I have the Dream Machine (I guess Dream router now) and it's awesome. Wish I got the Dream Machine Pro which is switch-like and comes with no AP's so you have to add them as needed and it supports cameras.
They don't supply Poe, mind. I'm planning an ubiquiti deployment:
5-6x AP 6 Pro 1x TL-SG1016PE PoE switch (yuck, but cheap) 1x R86S running opnsense and docker VMs, with unifi controller and pihole in docker
The R86S is the same price as the dream machine, but good luck running pihole on the DM
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My only complaint is that coming from a networking background, Ubiquity's OS is awful and makes me want to gouge my eyeballs out. Navigating the interface to find settings makes no sense, it's not very granular in how you can configure certain filtering settings, dual wan setups are difficult to manually change over, and good luck looking at logs to troubleshoot any traffic flow issues (hint: you can't).
For someone who just needs a firewall and a VPN endpoint, it's great. If you need anything more than that, get opnsense/pfsense. Pairing one of those with Ubiquity APs (which are actually pretty terrific) is a really solid setup.
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You already have some good suggestions, so i just want to mention openWRT which can be flashed on off-the-shelf router combo (just check their supported devices first, if you go this route)
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Pfsense or opnsense are really powerful options.
You'll need a wireless access point as well, but those two are quite powerful and can run on quite powerful hardware.
I cannot recommend any consumer router brand, at least not with stock firmware, because any of them don’t have guaranteed update policy. Further, some of the stock firmware contains insecure protocols, like telnet (yes, still), outdated ciphers (SSL, TLS 1.0), and some feature you want is always missing. Further they often lack innovative features like WireGuard in updates, mostly bug fixes and security patches.
That’s why I would urge you to consider using one of the router/ gateway distributions listed below.
Depending on your requirements, I can recommend the following router OS:
- OpenSense (router without WiFi)
- OpenWRT (router with WiFi)
If you have an old laptop or pc to spare, you could at least give those two a try.
Someone already mentioned it, OpenSense runs only on x86 / PC Hardware (and MiPS). OpenWRT can be flashed onto a lot of consumer routers as well as be installed on traditional x86 / PC hardware.
OpenWRT has a hardware table on their website for supported models. Some of them come cheap if you buy them used and are pretty decent.
If you like more flexibility, I can recommend building your own router. Used thin clients, Iike for example Fujitsu Futro S920. Thin clients are basically low-powered PCs, which are often cheap on the used market and provide a variety of hardware interfaces. Most use Intel NICs, some have secondary NIC, can hold SATA disks, provide interfaces for WiFi (pice, miniPCIe, m.2) or extension cards, have high efficient power supplies and are in majority are passive cooled. Or get some SBC/ Low-Powered board with the interfaces you need. It doesn’t need to be new hardware.
I second OPNsense and Fujitsu Futro S720/920 (from €20/30 on eBay) with secondary NIC (or even router on a stick with VLAN enabled switch). I'd leave WiFi to a dedicated AP.
I'm using a ~30 USD thin client with a 4 port networking card (~20 USD), just using plain nftables on Debian. It routes handles my network just fine (complex rule set with many subnets & rules, 250/100 Mbps connection). Also using codel/cake for traffic shaping, avoiding lousy ping times even when downloading/streaming et c.
I use two TP-Link EAP 245v3 (ancient by now, but I can still use all my WAN speed from all rooms) for WiFi. Works great.
If I would redo it I'd use VyOS, OpenWRT or maybe OPNSense, but still using x86 hardware due to cost/power usage/performance. And then newer ceiling access points.
Mikrotik hex are stupid cheap for the speed and features you get
Big fan of Mikrotik, but it helps to have some experience.
Haven't tried hex, but RB2011 would be my default recommendation, and I've seen RB4009 for ~£120 (bargain of the century!)
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I don't know if it's the best one, but I've been using Mikrotik Hex S for years and it's been a great experience so far.
It all depends on the features you want in that router and how much you’re willing to spend. I bought a MikroTik hAP ax3, which has many enterprise features (that can come handy to us selfhosters as well) that I found myself not necessarily needing, but definitely enjoying.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
| Fewer Letters | More Letters |
|---|---|
| AP | WiFi Access Point |
| DNS | Domain Name Service/System |
| NAT | Network Address Translation |
| PiHole | Network-wide ad-blocker (DNS sinkhole) |
| RPi | Raspberry Pi brand of SBC |
| SAN | Storage Area Network |
| SATA | Serial AT Attachment interface for mass storage |
| SBC | Single-Board Computer |
| SSH | Secure Shell for remote terminal access |
| SSL | Secure Sockets Layer, for transparent encryption |
| TLS | Transport Layer Security, supersedes SSL |
| Unifi | Ubiquiti WiFi hardware brand |
| VPN | Virtual Private Network |
13 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 14 acronyms.
[Thread #26 for this sub, first seen 11th Aug 2023, 15:25] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]
something running openWRT. I for example have a Turris Omnia, which is running their own fork of openwrt. https://www.turris.com/en/omnia/overview/
Can you give us some details about your house?
My house was built in the golden age of having voip landlines that needed CAT 5e cable but before cell phones were the norm so I have a wired backhaul mesh.
Edit: it occurs to me you probably mean like a router-router being that this is self hosted lol. So disregard haha
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I like the fritzbox ones but I think in USA the best is the base Unifi one (dream router)
Or a cheap decommissioned thinkcentre tiny m700 with opnsense
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Here is something I wrote previously under a similar post: "Check out the OpenWRT Table of Hardware, it has a list of firmware mod-able off the shelf WiFi routers that work with, you guessed it, OpenWRT. It's rather versatile as it's Linux based and can handle VLANs, multiple SSIDs, and of course, you can change the DNS servers." As I said, OpenWRT is very versatile and runs on many different routers, just find one you like and install it! Many of the supported routers provide Gigabit switching, and some even have multigit for your server connection.
It depends your necessity but If you want a reliable and secure router is a good option a router that is compatible with OpenWRT for example.
Mikrotik RB5009 is my router.
Moving to OPNsense
Off the shelf something like and EdgerouterX is great,
I’ve used this with much success (NanoPi r4s). It’s a mini board based off raspberry pi like system with an extra Ethernet out. It does not have Wi-Fi so you’d need to get an AP, but it’s swappable if you ever want to upgrade. With that and a switch for more Ethernet it’s fully open and customizable to put things like OpenWRT or whatever else you may want. Plenty of storage too.
Firewalla is also great if you want most things setup for you.
I'm a noob, but I'm running a Frirzbox router and it seems great to me. 0 problem in configuration and happened to have lots of useful features now that I'm exploring self hosting (it support woreguard VPN natively and have automatic wakeonlan feature for my server)
I’m a professional in software development, sometimes tasked with administration stuff.
At home I love my FRITZ!Box. The only thing I’m missing is DNS rewriting, but I can work around that. If you don’t know what that is you don’t need it anyway.
Another thing I don't like about my fritz box is that the DHCP server for some reason assigns a single DNS server to the computers in the network
I always found the software updates of AVM - the manufacturer of those "Fritz!Box"es - to be of questionable quality. If you take a look at the source code that they have to release upon request of the GPL'ed source code they use, you'll notice that they use ancient versions of the Linux kernel, Busybox and other tools. By ancient, I mean many years old, unsupported by upstream for years. Also, they only publish those sources manually when someone asks for them, which doesn't bode well for their internal development processes. If they used CI/CD pipelines, they could easily push out updates of those sources with every new release…
Same with a lot of manufacturers, unfortunately. This is not uncommon. The manufacturers get the base software from the manufacturer of the SOC (system on a chip) used by the router. This software is usually from when the chip series was first in development, and they never update it.
TP-Link make great hardware that works well, but even their newest routers are based on a version of OpenWRT from 5+ years ago with a Linux 4.x kernel.
but what is nice, many tp-link hw can run regular openwrt, which is way better than the thing they provide...
My main router here is a RPi4 with 4GB memory, Debian and an USB interface for the connection to internet. The switches are Netgear (324 and a gifted 724) and tthe main server is an RPI 4 as well, but with 8G mem.
UniFi Dream Router is also a nice router for internet speeds up to 700 Mbps.
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